How should risk professionals rethink the traditional relationship between risk and return when organizations are operating in conditions of deep

uncertainty? Let's just stop.

Full stop there.

Big loaded question.

Fair enough.

Fair enough.

So, I mean, there are two aspects to it.

Walk us through those three principles without giving away the story, because I know you're going to go into greater depth in November.

And you said it out in your book, really, your vision and your mission.

That's true.

The recent book, Disrupt with Impact, Achieve Business Success in an Unprintable World, was a way of bringing a lot of the executive education programs and the content in a sort of single, consumable, general audience book.

The primary theme is really unpredictability.

It's really how do you make sense and make decisions in unpredictability.

And the premise is that we are in a deeply uncertain, nonlinear, unpredictable, non-controllable world.

That is just a feature of the world, not necessarily good or bad, but maybe we need to rethink how we operate in that world and the skills and the education, governance and incentive structures that adapt to that world.

Since our last conversation, I'd love to get your perspective on how have you seen the landscape of disruption, as you articulated, evolve, particularly in the context of, if you don't mind, government and public sector organizations?

And you said it out in your book, really, your vision and your mission.

That's true.

The recent book, Disrupt with Impact, Achieve Business Success in an Unpredictable World, was a way of bringing a lot of the executive education programs and the content together in a sort of single, consumable, general audience book.

The primary theme is really unpredictability.

It's really how do you make sense and make decisions in unpredictability.

And the premise is that we are in a deeply uncertain, non-linear, unpredictable, non-controllable world.

That is just a feature of the world, not necessarily good or bad, but maybe we need to rethink how we operate in that world and the skills and the education, governance and incentive structures that adapt to that world.

Since our last conversation, I'd love to get your perspective on how have you seen the landscape of disruption, as you articulated, evolve, particularly in the context of, if you don't mind, government and public sector organizations?

But can you describe the different levels of unknown associated with each one of these metaphors? And with the current sort of global landscape in mind, what would you say is the most dangerous metaphor? type of animal today.

Yeah.

So you're right.

Once you kind of establish that we're in a period of deep uncertainty or unpredictability or systemic disruption, metarruptions, et cetera, in ways it's helpful, but it's also unhelpful because the next question is, well, okay, what do I do with my filters and triage? And is everything the same? Is it just 0% or 100%? And so I'm originally from South Africa, and you have in safari terms the big five, right? And the big five are typically the most scary and strongest and, you know, majestuous, but animals, the most dangerous, right? Your buffaloes, your rhinos, lions, leopards, and elephants, right? And I, you know, in the book we label the complex five, five animals which help us basically do a little bit of a triage of the degrees of uncertainty.

And being in D.C., a lot of people will be extraordinarily familiar with, obviously, the Rumpfelds, known unknowns and unknown knowns.

And it's effectively an extension of that.

So the most known is the gray rhino.

What's one key takeaway you'd like for our audience to get from Disrupt with Impact?