And where have you seen that? Where have you seen that go wrong? And maybe where you've corrected it in the past?

Yeah, I tell you what, let's just point out we're not even at seven minutes and we've we've used day already.

It didn't take long, did it? It's a good question.

There's lots of different theories and routes through this one.

So for me, I always start with the pain point.

I start with the customer's outcome.

So what is it that they're trying to achieve? Some people call this right to left thinking.

um so so you you one of the things about brand actually and I I love this is um I think I've recorded a podcast recently where someone said the same thing you have um you have that moment where someone says to you oh my goodness you're everywhere you know everywhere I go I can see you I can see you on LinkedIn I can see you at events I keep seeing you pop up you know here there everywhere I love that like that moment that that happens because that's yeah that's when you get the kind of like oh you know in your belly sort of I've done it right I'm doing something right um so how how um tell me a little bit about that about your experience of that and and how what you think it actually takes to kind of get to that point um and then how do you really know when you're sort of when you're getting there what are those signals