That was it.

If you're gonna get into this, you're getting, you know, kind of let's go up the...

Not just do the trek through the Himalayas, but climb Everest, you know? You go for it.

[laughs] I became a novice in October 1980.

I got the full, it's called the full ordination, in October 1982.

I returned to lay life in February '94.

1994When you take refuge, which is like formally re- becoming a Buddhist, you get a book, a certificate of your taking refuge, and this is the one I got in 1978.

So what it does is it gives an opportunity for there to be a cross fertilization.