How does that work?

Yes.

So I will say as an American living in a country that has really patted its back on being very proud of its democracy, democracy gets it wrong very often.

And I think in the United States, we have a history that demonstrates the majority does not very often does not rule in favor of mutual flourishing.

So, um, So when we think about decisions, the vast majority of us in Western society have been conditioned in patriarchal systems of command and control, where the person who has the most institutional power also has the most authoritative power and decides what we're going to do, how we're going to do it, and then communicates that message down a pyramid.

And so for people who are really earnest about wanting to lead differently, the only other option feels like democracy.

And that feels really scary because I can't trust that the majority is going to actually make the wisest decision.

Can we go a little bit deeper into the skill sets or the qualities that are being developed or have to be, should be, can be developed for this to be a working prototype of a new way of leading and being in organizations?

But what if you don't? And Robin, I'm curious to think, how do we translate that back to the subject of the lost productivity? How do people channel those energies or understand, or do we actually even have the tools to understand how do we figure that out without actually getting diagnosed?

Sure.

Yeah.

So one of my teachers, Ken Cloak, he always asked us to pose this question.

What would have to happen in order for me to behave this way? And when you see behaviors and emotions showing up, what would have to happen for me to behave this way? And another person I know who is who is a therapist said every behavior is rational.

Every irrational behavior is rational in the right context.

And both of those allow us to open up curiosity.

environment?

How do you help? How do we treat people well who have been following the system, the broken system, and now a new system is coming along? How do we help bring them along when they have been tacitly, their behavior has been acceptable because it's never been questioned?

Okay, so this is where I want to talk about the patriarchy.

So in a patriarchal system, and it's interesting, I'll pause here.

I've only recently been talking about the patriarchy and the matriarchy.

I've always been talking about the dynamics of the patriarchy and the matriarchy, but I've been using language of physics.

And I have been talking about it from the perspective of Newtonian organizations, where the more force you put on something, the more production you get from it, versus quantum, which is a relational approach to the way power moves through an organization.

And being kind of a science nerd, that made tons of sense to me.

So can you talk a little bit more about that?

In honoring the inherent worth and value of others is a constant practice of commitment to getting it right, holding the truth that you're going to consistently get it wrong, and that you're gonna have the humility to continue working towards that practice of getting it right.

We need to be in a constant state of practicing curiosity.

Why it's so hard to get it right is because honoring your identity is different for you than what honoring identity for me is.

Fairness is different for you than it is for me.

So in order for me to truly honor your worth and value as a human being, I have to be just infinitely curious.

Yeah.

Like, it was making sense here, but it wasn't making sense systemically.

They didn't know how to make it true.