But like, are there other ways that we might notice other things that are happening for us that are more subtle or just other things that are happening that you're like, yes, that is that would be trauma.

So in my book, I have like five subtypes of post-traumatic parents.

And I have like the perfectionist post-traumatic parent.

And that's someone who is trying to parent so perfectly that they're forgetting to be present.

Right.

And they think they're doing it so well.

They're like memorizing every gentle parenting script and they're just trying so hard and they still feel like I'm missing something.

Can you help us understand what that looks like and when the inner child takes over in real time? Like, what does that actually look like?

But then you have kids, and you're like, "Uh, well, this actually is not working in the family setting." So can you talk about your experience there of dissociating? And your kids are, they're so perceptive, they would even notice.

Yeah, so one of the ways I learned to cope with my trauma was to dissociate, which means you sort of become a brain and not a body.

So I would just go into, whether it was a fantasy world of reading, whether it was doing my work, like my homework, but I was in this little bit of a pink cloud, and I would feel totally calm when I was dissociated.

So stuff could be going on in my house, like when I was a kid, my father could be having a heart episode, um, you know, things could be stressful, but I was in Narnia.

You know, or I was in math homework.

I was not there.

Um, and then my brain really learned how to do that.

'Cause-

What did it teach you about the two and did it help you become a better counselor?

It definitely helped me become a better psychologist.

I'll tell you why.

Prior to that incident with my son, I looked at trauma, I looked at anxiety, OCD, whatever I was treating as a monster that we keep at bay.

So we learn techniques like deep breathing and progressive muscle relaxation, behavioral techniques that can help us.

And I thought that was enough.

If I learned those techniques, every time I have a panic attack, I breathe this way and I can manage and I can get through it.

Can you go through that quiz and maybe what's a telltale scenario that distinguishes like a perfectionist default from a paralyzed default?