optimizes all the parts there's someone who has to be really comfortable with ambiguity and darkness that you know there's there's things that we we don't know we're not going to know and actually until especially in innovation we're not going to know until we we start doing it and then they will we'll we'll learn pretty quickly if it's going to work or not and when you speak to people in the ops environment that is completely alien

Oh, it's completely alien.

And I have so much empathy for it.

Like I hate uncertainty.

I feel like my career in innovation is like pennant.

Because I am the person, I read the last page of a book first because I want to know who's still alive at the end so I don't get emotionally attached to somebody who may not make it to the end.

So I hate uncertainty.

Of

Can you walk us through that journey and what led you to focus so deeply on helping leaders turn uncertainty into growth?

Absolutely.

So I was very fortunate that when I graduated from undergrad, I had studied marketing and I got hired by P&G into brand management.

And it was at a time, a long time ago now, when the company was just kind of just refinding its innovation wings.

It had started up some new brand groups based on the realization that the company hadn't created a new brand in something like 30 years.

And so I just got assigned randomly to one of those groups.

And quite literally, a year to the day that I graduated, I was on stage with the team launching Swiffer.

How do you help teams move from those interesting ideas, kind of like what happened with the diabetes thing, to something that clearly drives growth? So how do you get it from the whiteboard to the whatever that analogy is.