But if we look at the kind of beginning of that process, what difference should this distinction between transfer and completion make to the way we design and deliver training?

I think, first of all, there's this idea, and I've spoken about this a lot, people who've heard me speak will be bored of me saying these things, but basically we measure the things which are easy to measure and accord importance to those numbers, rather than measure the things that are really important.

One of the challenges that we've got with transfer is, you're absolutely right, it is difficult to measure.

But because we are measuring the wrong things, we're measuring completion rates, we're measuring smile sheets, we're measuring whatever it is that's simple for us to measure, course attendance, etc., And we forget, therefore, to design into that learning process for people the workplace transfer component.

We don't have a set of tasks, activities, processes that people need to go through to move from, I'm now aware of what I should be doing to I am now doing what I should be doing.

And that's a gap within the learning design process.

So from an L&D perspective... actually getting to grips with, well, what are people going to do differently at the end of this? And how do we know when they've done it? What support mechanisms are going to be in place when they're in work? And, you know, people talk about workflow learning and all of those sorts of things.

And the other thing is, what do you want people to leave the NEC with after this year's show? The one thing that if they did it differently on Monday would make the trip worth it.

Yeah.

You know, the idea of not being able to see the forest, see the vista, because I'm focusing just on this thing which is immediate now.

And a lot of sales organizations run on that basis of, you know, constantly cycling, cycling, cycling and not necessarily taking the time to reflect and think and all the rest of it.

So if Simon's right, and what AI and automation gives us is the opportunity to actually reduce that bureaucracy such that we have more time to do the things that really matter-

Absolutely.

How do we get those an- those questions responded to in a positive way? That's where the sales coach comes in, whether that's the line manager or an individual within the team who's acting in that role.

Somebody who can look at the data and help the individual to make sense of it, to tell a story, to think about what is actionable, and then to help them focus on, well, which action are you going to take? Because it's very easy to say, "Oh, we could do this, we could do that, we could do that, we could do that." The job of a good coach is to help people make as good a choice as possible about the possible op- actions that are available, but it's also to make themselves redundant so that over time-