So when we talk about trust in lead generation, what are we exactly talking about, and what's the most fundamental trust issue in this area that concerns you the most?

That's a good, a good opening question.

I think as an anecdote for you, when I got into lead and demand generation, which is something like 20 years ago now, Joel, I remember meeting somebody, a business leader from Google, at an event.

And, uh, when I told him that I was getting involved in lead and demand generation, he described it as a, as a dirty sector.

And I think that's a difficult starting point to say 20 years ago it was deemed by other people in the space to be dirty, and you're asking, I think, fair questions 20 years later about, uh, trust in the space.

The distrust stemmed from, uh, a period when personal data wasn't really being properly regulated at all.

So it's pre-GDPR.

Would more transparency be part of, make a better situation?