He must have been a very inspiring person.

I'd say he was one of the best at belly boning ever produced.

And August weekend, if I may come forward a bit, he was taking his fiancée at the time for a boat trip.

And she had her leg in the boat ready to go for a trip up the cliffs.

And the alarm was raised that there was a drowning down the long strand.

So we took off anywhere and went out around the Black Rocks and down and Gianni Moriarty, who was the lifeguard, he had taken, recovered one and he was out searching for the other, which was a body at that stage.

And he came to the conclusion that it couldn't be found anywhere and to go back.

So what else did Tim get up to? What was he known for? You said agricultural, wasn't it?

I mean, what does it take, you know, not only to kind of craft that vision, but also to pursue it with the assumption that, hey, you can get this done?

I think right now, even to this day, I am struck with the same situation I was a long time ago.

Moral outrage.

Moral outrage.

I just became outrageously morally so objectionable that people with disabilities could be put in such a horrific place.

You know, and you said New Jersey.

So as long as we're in New Jersey, let's stay with New Jersey.

What's, what state did you go to first from there? Well, we, we

But tell us about how it struck you when you started really engaging with tax.

A couple of things.

I only took two tax courses in law school because I tried to take hard courses from good professors.

By the way, that's a tip for students.

Georgetown has wonderful professors, and I took Tax one and Tax two because I thought they'd be hard, and I figured I'd challenge myself.

And I did well in both those courses, which sometimes in life you're kind of like a little surprised, like, "Dang, I was able to do well in tax? That's weird.

Okay, put that aside." Then I go off to be a summer associate at Covington Burling in 1983.

[laughs]