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When they first started, they were just like me and you, you know what I mean? So they can sort of teach you the ropes, but they can meet you where you're at, and I think that's the most important thing.

Like they're not meeting you as like, they're not gonna take you back to square one.

So if you're a magician coming to Christianity, they can go, "Okay, so in like, in Wicca, you knew candle magic, yeah?" And what they can then do is say, "Well, in Catholicism, we have this thing called a novena." And rather than like your spell oils, we've got holy oil.

You know what I mean? And we like rather than your like lustral waters, we've got holy water, and they can sort of show you where the, the lines connect.

Um, but although they show you how it all connects, there's, there's a thing of like not leaving that behind, but sort of like coming correctly to the saint and letting the saint guide you.

Uh, because what a lot of people do, they'll come and start working with the saint, and like I said about the Lord's Prayer, like where you can sort of like give up at the first finish line, a lot of people will be like, "Oh, well, you know what I mean? Catholicism's got candle magic." You know? But it's a lot more than that.

Mm-hmm

Oh, wow

...

they thought they failed [laughs] because he, you know, like was like, "No, I'm not doing this." That actually what he did even with that one sentence of like truth is a pathless thing, that if you think about that and meditate on it, that can do way more than what studying a religion can do.

Um, and it's, it's the lens in which you look at stuff through.

You know what I mean? If Catholicism or Protestant, uh, faith or any denomination of Christianity is force-feeding this shit down your throat, then how are you gonna speak? You know what I mean? If they're telling you what to believe, then how are you gonna talk about your experiences? And when you work, like I've worked with like students and stuff as well, and when you work on a back and forth thing, you say, "Hey look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna teach you this thing.

Go and do it." And they come back and they say, "I've had this experience." And then you explain the experience to them.

When you explain the experience to them, they can then like codify what's happening and go, "Holy fucking shit." But it's, that's where the magic happens.

Yeah.