So is there the assumption that it was all just bubbling along there anyway, and it just took all of that to surface? And, you know, Jewish people have been saying for a very long time, Robert, I know they have, that the anti-Semitism has been bubbling along and it just spilled over in the most horrendous fashion?

It has been bubbling away, but to be honest...

Until October 7, I don't think anyone realized how serious it was until we saw the scenes we did at the Opera House in parts of Western Sydney with some of the hate preachers.

I think the public had no idea about what was going on in some parts of Australian society.

And now the question is, how can we prevent this from spreading further? How can we We saw the consequences of Bondi, and now how can we fight back against it?

But, you know, Jewish people, in my experience, and I lived there for a very long time, uh mostly gentle people who go about uh their business um you know go to uh the synagogue on saturday and uh all of a sudden there's this explosion of and it was there's no no way to sugarcoat it of sheer hatred and appalling things said and uh i don't know it just it shocked me and uh you know i'm not a jewish person so i can imagine what the shock must have been amongst the jewish population in the eastern suburbs and everywhere else by the way melbourne everywhere else in the world

Jewish life in this country has changed dramatically.

Jewish buildings are now like fortresses.

And apart from anything else, that's just basically not fair.

Exactly.

It's a failure of multiculturalism if you have one community that's being targeted, that feels it needs to hide away behind high fences and security guards, not able to celebrate in the open.

So I think we need to try and create the society where we can without guards, but for the time being.

We need to have them.

And I think I understand the police, you know, say if one community can be protected, what about others? But I think there's a lot of tools they could use.

For example, if they declare a certain community is at risk of terrorist events, then they

So can I ask you where to from here? Is there any progress being made?

So, um, obviously I'm assuming that, uh, cost has to be, uh, borne by the parents of the schools surely, yeah?

There is some funding from government, but the vast majority is borne by the parents.

I think every Jewish school has security levies, um, something around $1,000 a student or a bit more, um, per year, which parents pay.

Um, which it's just money that should go to educating children, not having to protect them.

Not just frustration, but sadness that this has happened in this way.

There's a great sadness that...

It, it feels like something's been lost because there was always antisemitism around the world, but it wasn't in Australia.

And the fact that it's come here, um, to this, this paradise which we've had in Australia, it's very disappointing.

Or is it more a case of I'm not sure what they believe other than they'll do whatever they need to do to get more votes at the next election?

I think it's a bit of a mix.

I think there is actually some pretty hardcore anti-Israel, quite extreme, even almost anti-Western beliefs.

I mean, we know that the prime minister in his younger days was one of those marching at the rallies in the street.

So I mean, how much has changed? How much has he matured? We're not sure.

Penny Wong, after the October 7 attacks, when she went to visit Israel, she couldn't even bring herself to visit the site of the attacks.

So, I mean, that is something personal to many of these people.

Robert, how would you and most of the Jewish community in this country rate the national broadcaster's performance?

And you are saying that that's what you've seen.

Well, you're 100% right, Caleb.

I mean, over the last couple of years, we've had laws banning Nazi salutes, laws banning swastikas, laws banning individual phrases and certain protests.

And as everyone knows, anti-Semitism has skyrocketed in that same period of time.

I mean, a few years ago, Neo-Nazis were a bunch of losers that nobody took seriously.

And I really think these laws have now elevated them.

They've made them martyrs.

Why was it pushed so hard by some?

I've still got a great affiliation for it, and I went to school with a number of, Jewish fellows and we have lunch and one of my best mates is a Jewish fellow just a quiet community that just gets on with with their faith with their religion and you know and that's always been the case and all of a sudden you were facing all of this anti-semitic hate and everyone was saying well why I mean I know it's a big question but are we able to now put our finger on why

Well, that's the thing.

The Jewish community has been in Australia since the first fleet, and it's contributed since then.

It's been an important part of the fabric of Australia.

But I think recent changes, and whether some of that's connected with some of the immigration we've had, with some of the youth, what they've been taught in schools, Australia, I think people are...

Australians are turning on Australia and they're turning on the Jewish community.

And those two things are connected.

He

So I'm interested when you say the, the police were there to make Jewish people feel safe, as if the issue was really the way that Jews felt rather than the actual threat itself.

Well, I was surprised to see that remark in the report, uh, which I believe came, uh, from instructions given from more senior New South Wales police to dispatching the police to Bondi Beach.

So that was in the report.

It was surprising to see because it made it seem like the police are there just to reassure the community that, you know, maybe the community's overreacting or, or getting a bit worried, rather than there's a real risk.

Police should be there present the whole time.

There should even perhaps be senior police.

Police, um, perhaps with rifles, not just pistols.

Taking into account the Prime Minister's press conference today, those comments from Chris Minns, what you've seen of the interim report, are you feeling more confident or less confident today that antisemitism will be dealt with properly?