How did that come about?

Well, I wasn't a Christian, so I went to university to study chemistry.

I have A-levels in chemistry, physics and biology.

And then I did a degree in religious studies because I had a profound experience of knowing.

It's weird to put in words, particularly if you're talking to somebody who isn't a churchgoer.

I describe it as a profound moment of realising that God was there with me.

And that happened in a Baptist church when there was someone who was very like me praying.

You know, I wonder and worry a little bit that the working class stuff will get suffocated by other matters, which, you know, everybody puts their kind of interest at the top of their uh you know level of importance but all these things are important but but in terms of llf you know um do you think this is kind of the calm before the storm before it gets renamed as something else and we start the whole journey again and how optimistic are you about uh the church becoming more diverse and inclusive just some thoughts on that if you would