In your view, what's the pivot point that we're at right now? What needs to happen for agentic to really let's say, realize its full potential?

So I think we need to think of agentic in financial services in two ways, right? Firstly, from an AI perspective, as distinct from agents, how are we going to engage with our financial services apps in natural language, right? How are we going to speak into our phones or type into our phones in our own words what we want to do, right? And I think banks are moving there, but what's mostly happening is these are advice agents or bots that you're engaging with in a mobile financial services app.

And the challenge with that there is while your customer may get some good advice, to the extent you want to translate that into action, unless they can get to the bottom of that chat and the agent might say, Lou, would you like me to do what we just said in this chat? Until you can say yes, and it just happens in your app.

Yes, I want to open a mortgage down payment account.

Yes, I want 10% of my paycheck to sweep into that every month.

Yes, I want my partner invited into the same account because we're saving up for a house together.

Unless you can say yes, and that all appears in your app, you're going to lose about 80%, maybe 90% of the translation of the customer from taking some advice to doing something with the bank.

And I guess a lot of that has to do with what we might call the family or the home.

Give, give me the founder story.

So Brett, uh, the founder story, uh, starts with Paul.

It doesn't start with me.

Uh, Paul left Morgan Stanley in two thousand and six to set up his own boutique structured finance merchant bank in the UK, um, called AGFE, and it's a very successful, uh, platform serving a lot of the big banks and a lot of the big investors, and they structure transactions and are deep experts on merchant finance, supply chain finance, structured finance, et cetera.

Uh, and they ha- they saw a, a, a hole in the market in, uh, the late teens where rates were still at zero, merchants were paying a lot of money, uh, for short-term capital from banks, and customers had their money on deposit at zero.

Um, and so they had a thesis that customers could in fact start to deposit some money where they know they're gonna spend it, um, and, uh, the merchants would pay them a healthy return much higher than zero in a bank.

Um, and the, um, um, uh, the, uh, merchants themselves would though be still paying a lot less than they were paying the banks for short-term working capital.

... how are you designing, um, agent verification and agent identification in the architecture?

But if they didn't have it...

Yeah, it's such a terrific observation.

I must say, we start every meeting...

So we primarily, we're an odd company, Dharmesh.

Our- we're not kids as far as young init starters.

We've been in the business for a really long time.

You know, our first three customers are all in the top 10 of the global banks on Earth, right? So we have giant tier one customers live with our product, and we generally start with the business owners.

What do you do to kind of make the job of them defining these like highly personalizable, configurable products? Because I can imagine with lots of kind of options that your point-and-click isn't gonna cut it in terms of defining [laughs] a set of rules.