[laughs]

... um, if, if we, if we look at my education, my plan was to go and work for IBM and to do computer studies, but I was also quite creative, so I did art and graphics and physics and, um, unfortunately I didn't get my place.

I did the interview, um, and, uh, received a, a, a pro- um, what, what's the word I'm looking for? A, um, provisional or subject-to-results, um, offer, and then I failed physics and so, yeah, I didn't actually go on to do computer studies sponsored by IBM.

And so I went into retail actually, and what I found, um, it was a stopgap, it was a year out, and what I found is that, um, it just taught me business.

And, uh, some of the things that, uh, um, really resonate, which is engaging with people, um, problem-solving, being creative a- around ideas, I found it was a perfect platform to exercise or to scratch this itch that I had.

And, um, as I was doing that and being slightly creative with the way I did things and constantly challenging the norm, um, I started to get great results.

And, uh, also by having these plans and making it fun and innovative, I found that, um, persuasion and motivation of people came quite naturally, and, uh, I really enjoyed it.

Yeah.