[laughs]

...

the question is, is the, the real dream, the, uh, while spaceplanes look cool, the real reason why they're seen as so effective is because it's aircraft-like operations.

So in a way, spaceplane was a solution to the problem that, uh, Elon Musk and SpaceX are solving with Starship.

They are trying to solve the problem of rapid reusable launch access to space, and the spaceplane was sort of the original solution to that.

But obviously SpaceX has done a great job of, uh, of, of solving that with its, with its, um, vertical launch and vertical landing capabilities.

And actually, SpaceX is featured extensively in the book because of the whole series of reasons or strange synchronicities in timing, in the fact that, uh, an aspect of the book is a sort of what the book is almost sort of what if history.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

...

the question is, is the, the real dream, uh, w- while space planes look cool, the real reason why they're seen as so effective is because it's aircraft-like operations.

So in a way, space plane was a solution to the problem that, uh, Elon Musk and SpaceX are solving with Starship.

They are trying to solve the problem of rapid reusable launch access to space, and the space plane was sort of the original solution to that.

But obviously, SpaceX has done a great job of, uh, of, of solving that with its, with its, um, vertical launch and vertical landing capabilities.

And actually, SpaceX is featured extensively in the book because of the whole series of reasons or strange synchronicities in timing in the fact that, uh, an aspect of the book is a sort of what...

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

...

the question is, is the, the real dream, the, uh, while space planes look cool, the real reason why they're seen as so effective is because it's aircraft-like operations.

So in a way, space plane was a solution to the problem that, uh, Elon Musk and SpaceX are solving with Starship.

They are trying to solve the problem of rapid reusable launch access to space, and the space plane was sort of the original solution to that.

But obviously SpaceX has done a great job of, uh, of, of solving that with its, with its, um, vertical launch and vertical landing capabilities.

And actually, SpaceX is featured extensively in the book because of a whole series of reasons or strange synchronicities in timing, in the fact that, uh, an aspect of the book is a sort of what...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

...

the question is, is the, the real dream, uh, w- while space planes look cool, the real reason why they're seen as so effective is because it's aircraft-like operations.

So in a way, space plane was a solution to the problem that, uh, Elon Musk and SpaceX are solving with Starship.

They are trying to solve the problem of rapid reusable launch access to space, and the space plane was sort of the original solution to that.

But obviously SpaceX has done a great job of, uh, of, of solving that with its, with its, um, vertical launch and vertical landing capabilities.

And actually, SpaceX is featured extensively in the book because of a whole series of reasons or strange synchronicities in timing, in the fact that, uh, an aspect of the book is a sort of what...

Mm-hmm.

These were like serious launch vehicles rather than like return vehicle, you know, like upper stages, I suppose.

Yeah, and essentially, I mean, you're referring to the European Space Agency, Space Rider.

It's a small space plane.

It's really a lifting body design.

It doesn't have a wing as such.

It has a small payload capacity.

It would stay in orbit for a couple of months.

And luckily, I guess there were some European nations that went, oh, we should probably build a launch vehicle so that we can do our own sort of national projects that may kind of be in competition with American projects, right? Yeah.