In other words, when you see the nose in, fingers out not being followed well, what can that look like?

Oftentimes, the board is looking for a fix.

There's a crisis or there's a problem, and they wanna see it fixed.

And again, in the limited time that they have to devote to their jobs, they wanna see it done quickly.

When there is a serious issue, and, and when you talk about these d- director dilemmas, you know, these are real cases that we derive from the media.

It's interesting.

You open up the paper in the morning or you listen to the news, and oftentimes I'm receiving emails from previous attendees in our program, in the directors' education program, saying, "Did you see this case? This would make a great director dilemma." And oftentimes they do.

From your perspective, what sort of practices actually help create trust, accountability, healthy governance boundaries?