And we need to make a shift back and really advocate for pedagogy and what we know about how humans learn and make that a stronger focus in our schools rather than giving curricular companies or testing companies, the free access and making decisions that have a negative impact on teachers and children.

Can I jump in and say something from my personal experience as a kindergarten teacher? And this is Renee Dinnerstein who's speaking.

I'm sorry.

In 1968, when I first taught kindergarten, it was half day.

It was a half day program.

OK, basically, the children were there, I think, like two and a half hours or some small amount of time.

And it was play.

I think that what you're actually emphasizing now, as you have throughout this, is that we're not just talking in general terms, but we're talking about social, emotional, and ethical development that takes place in early childhood and during play.