Reese, do you have a template that you like to follow with your design work? Or does the topography ultimately really decide what the course layout is gonna look like?

I think the topography does it.

The, we don't really have templates.

We do sketches and plans.

We don't have, uh, plans we pull out of a file.

Um, I think, um, McLemore's a great example of that.

Uh, it was a, it's a windy site.

... flows the way you're envisioning it to?

How will he win and who will win? So first, our winners, that guy who's holding up that trophy on Sunday, how will he have done that? What will he have had to do well?

Basically, the winner will have done it with his putter because the drives are not that challenging because the fairways are so wide.

And if they tuck the pins, they will not have easy birdie putts.

So it's going to be the lag putting and the 10-footers, the 15-footers.

And Brooks Koepka proved himself to be great at that when he won all his championships, especially at Belle Reve, which I completely redid before that PGA Championship in 2018, which followed his play at Belle Reve.

So that was a precursor to how well he would do at Belle Reve.

So I think it's the putter.

if you can cut it down to four or let's say even five, if we build a bigger Rushmore, what would you say are your top five courses that you appreciate both as a golfer and a golf course architect?