What, w- what, what was that like?

I suppose people deal with things differently, right? It shaped me into the man that I've become, in the same way that your career is gonna shape you into the man that you become, and girls into the women that they become, et cetera.

So what it did is it, it cut out the person I was and replaced it with the person that I've become, which went on to become really successful journalist, da-di, da-di, da, but that's another chapter.

But at that time, I was just anger...

Angry, bitter, twisted, and tormented by the whole, uh, whole ordeal.

And, and by the time I got to trial, there was a bit of me that kind of thought, they cannot convict me, because the evidence is now standing in, in the face.

You know, how do you tell a jury that I'm supposed to have committed a murder, and all these really violent robberies, and there's not one piece of forensic evidence to, to prove that? Not that that's the golden bar, but gosh, the, the types of crimes that were committed, there would've been some forensic evidence against-

What are those?