Mm-hmm.

A combination of that.

And that's always kind of been the thing that I gravitate to.

Uh, I, I knew that they were in trouble.

I know that they're small.

I know that they're difficult.

Uh, I knew it would be a challenge, but that was the appeal to me, is to, is to, uh, tackle that.

Mm-hmm

So for our listeners who didn't catch our first two episodes about Egyptian tortoises, can you go over what their current situation is in their native range and why is wild recovery for them so challenging?

Well, we'll start out with several years ago, they were designated as protected under the Endangered Species Act.

The Endangered Species Act prohibits any collection, any sale, any transfer, anything.

I mean, basically, you can't touch them.

That's kind of the rule.

Now, there are a few exceptions to that rule.

Why, though? Why are they protected? Well, they're protected because in their native range, between a combination of habitat destruction, poaching, collection for the pet trade.

Mm-hmm.