And it's something I've seen with people of my generation, you know, like blokes who are 50, you know, gave up smoking years ago, took up vaping because it seemed like a fun thing to do, and now they're back exactly where they were 20 years ago.

That's, uh, [laughs] that's a great point.

And I guess when we were-- when I was outlining sort of a very high level outline of the industry and the role it plays, it's around reinventing itself and coming up with products, because ultimately the tobacco industry has to act in the best interest of its shareholders.

Generally, that'll be around making profit and trying to entice consumers to try their products and take them up at a young age, and then have a lifelong of addiction, essentially, where they keep coming back and purchasing the product and that industry continues to profit.

What we've seen is tremendous success in tobacco control, and so we've seen tremendous declines in smoking prevalence, and we've seen tremendous shifts in uptake.

We've seen young people not taking up, um, smoking or tobacco use, um, for decades.

And so with that success, the industry has to reinvent itself and come up with ways to formulate and sell products or generate products for every occasion, and that's what we've seen with things like vapes or nicotine pearls or gummies or pouches.

The, you know, amount of times you come up against this is just incredible.

What do you think is behind this?

Yeah, I think it's a, it's an ongoing challenge and, and sort of as Anita alluded to.

Uh, the vast majority of people who, who smoke want to quit or wish they never took it up.

So I think that's really important and speaks to that addictive nature of things.

Um, probably since COVID, I think we've seen a really concerted effort from, from the tobacco industry and retailers to target people.

We've seen that with the illicit trade of vaping products.

We've seen vaping stores pop up at schools, around schools, um, really targeting, um, children, young people, and we're starting to see that with illicit tobacco stores popping up everywhere with this, um, approach to really normalize, um, and re-socialize tobacco even though we know the majority of people are trying to quit.

Is that something that you might see here?