What are some simple sort of observable signs that someone's mindset around money is starting to shift in a healthier direction? I

think my experience of that is that when people get clear about their ideas about money or they might have a belief about money and they'll look at Like, do you really have to work really, really hard for money or is a prince actually coming on a white horse to save me? But when you surface one of those beliefs and go, well, actually, maybe I'll save myself or maybe there's lots of different ways to make money, things get simpler and more relaxed.

So I think for me, when someone's done lots of money mindset work, they just feel a bit more relaxed.

like tau, like calm, things are simpler because when people's beliefs line up with who they really are and what they really value, they're sort of in line rather than they're believing some strange thing their mum told them 50 years ago that isn't really true and it's sort of clanging around in the background there, making them do weird spending things and that's sort of got a slightly wobbly feeling.

Am

How do you suggest people approach debt in a way that's constructive rather than paralyzing themselves?

For me, you know, there's different kinds of debt.

Like I feel different about my credit card debt to my mortgage or when I had a student loan.

not about if you're in, yeah, it's like giving someone nutrition advice who's in the emergency room having a cardiac arrest it's like it's not an emergency yeah

yeah exactly that's exactly it yeah I just wanted to say it because it's so important um and you're asking like how do we get present and I guess it might be similar to the way that you you work but it's like we just kind of ground into what's true what is my relationship with money right now what what did my mum used to say about it what did my dad say what was modeled for me What are my beliefs? Do I still believe them? Are they real? Do I really have to work really hard for money or whatever I'm telling myself? And that might be true for me or it might be not.

But I think it's just shining the light of both gentleness and care and consciousness on it and looking at it.

And I think everyone's money's journey is totally different.

There's no right way, just the way that's right for you.

But just to look at it and go, huh, is that what I really believe about money? Or is that what I...

really want or how do i feel and with that for me comes a real relaxing and releasing i can just be with what's true with myself with what's present it can change and i feel like i'm then i'm in the car and i've got my hands on the steering wheel of my own financial life And all that stuff that the spreadsheets and the budgets that I didn't like doing, it's so easy.

Here's how I can start to work with

So, so what was your sort of own money reset moment? You know, the point that you realized, "Actually, my current approach to money isn't working and something has to change"?

Well, for me, um, that's in the, you know, the intro of the book is, like, I'd come back from America.

I'd been traveling, um, for eight years, and my mum was, was dying of cancer, and I was back, and I didn't even have a KiwiSaver.

So sort of washed back into New Zealand with a suntan and, um, you know, not much else.

And, and I started working with Ange at, at Double Denim, and she said, "Do you know that women are, like, a third more likely to retire into poverty or have 25% less in their KiwiSavers?" And I, it struck me like an arrow through the heart.

I was like, "I am on track for that." Like-

Mm.

Like, do you really have to work really, really hard for money, or is someone, is a prince actually coming on a white horse to save me, or...