When we talk about the sort of shocks that we've been discussing, does that retail environment make our food system more brittle? Does it make it more precarious?

I would say it does, because the major supermarkets are dependent on particular types of supply chains.

So those supply chains we might think of as being just-in-time supply chains, meaning that to reduce costs, keep food fresh, relatively small amounts of food are actually kept in store, more of that food is back through the supply chains.

That's what people noticed during COVID-19 when the supermarket shelves were becoming empty.

More of that food was back through those food supply chains.

But they also have a relatively small number of centres, large warehouses, if you like, that food comes into.

So around a city like Melbourne, there might be eight of those.

How much of this goes back to that fundamental issue of us framing food and food production as an economic goal?