But can you lay out your bullish crypto, bullish Zcash thesis for where we are right now, October 2026?

Yeah, I mean, my horizon is much longer than your average CT guy.

I understand why they're bearish, but their time horizon is more like next week or next month, which I have no ability to predict.

But I think over a three to five year time horizon, the thesis for Bitcoin has not changed, right? Has the government stopped printing money? The answer is no.

And as Bitcoin, is the fixed supply of Bitcoin going away? And the answer is no.

So the thesis for the last 15 years remains the same.

Of course, there's the AI and quantum threat in the coming years, but I have no reason to believe that we're not gonna be able to solve this.

Can you lay out the best case scenario for Zcash moving forward and maybe why that is like uniquely positioned in face of like quantum fears and also, you know, AI cracking fears, things like this.

No, go

ahead.

Go ahead.

I mean, the thesis, everyone knows what the thesis is.

It's private.

It's quantum resistant.

But more importantly, I think the thesis has never really changed over the last 10 years.

So is this bullish developers, developers, developers or bearish? It's hard to know.

Give me your background before we go too deep to just contextualize your coding ability, I would say.

Between 2010 and 2017, right before I got into crypto, I was in quant trading.

And I spent all day coding both the super low-level C++, the actual trading engine, as well as the higher-level Python data science stuff.

And that's my work for seven years, all day, is coding.

And then at Masari, I wrote some front-end code, a little bit of front-end code and back-end code.

And then ever since I left Masari, I haven't seriously coded for three years.

I did some personal projects here and there, maybe at the end of the year for every year, the last three years.

How do you think about moats then for companies? And definition of a moat change?

But like, do you think there's like, what would you think would be the next thing? Like, are you excited about RWAs or anything of that nature?

no i mean i'm not i'm really surprised how well bitcoin's been holding up like i think jordy's prediction on bitcoin being like correlated to gold is actually i mean it looks like it's correct it's like you know in old days this thing should be at like 60k by now but um you know so i mean bitcoin's like i think cross the chasm it's like a macro asset that's like half gold half equities i still think like the correlation of, because MSTR drives so much of the flow in Bitcoin and MSTR is just correlated to the equity indices.

Like it just forces it to be more correlated to the indices than gold is.

So it doesn't trade as cleanly, but you

mean like we've seen i

i feel like the edge over the past two months has been like an order of magnitude less at least on the discretionary side than like last year and i think it'll probably continue there will be like you know peaks and troughs but i do i don't think the uh like ct is like more like an altcoin thing like bitcoin can still trade at this price or even higher and like maybe there's just not that much opportunity for like a person sitting at his desk clicking buttons all day so i think that type of trading might just die out very soon and i think on my end i mean like I think I've, you know, a lot of us have already understood the market better than most people ever can, but like, it's probably, it probably can't consume like a full days of work, um, years down the line.

Um, so yeah, I'm just looking probably to move to other things.

Trump has

already said last week that he expects the economy to be good for six months.

And before the election, he also said that if Trump wins, he expects a lot of the return of the animal spirit for about six months as well.

So it's possible that the stock market keeps going up for six months and crypto follows.

But I also like, I think the, I could see argument both ways in the short term.

You know, economy is good.

Stock market goes up.

How is it looking to you right now?