Yeah.

I think, like, it's part of, like...

Because it was a way for me to start experimenting with the material and the process itself, and I've always been drawn to more organic forms than, like, rigid forms, and I think that's another thing I struggled with with, like, painting is, like, it was, like, very boxy.

And that's why I like to make, like, elaborate, weird-shaped frames, and I think that is, like, an offshoot of wanting to, like, make organic forms and, like, things bleeding and having their own, like, entity vibe to it.

And so even though they're, like, two completely different bodies of work, like my first two years in university look completely different from my last two years in university, uh, the through line is, like, searching for the organic-ness of material and process and, like, where it kind of, like, fights against that.

And that's why I feel like bodies were a good Jumping point, 'cause bodies are naturally very organic and curvy and not-

... down that path, which is quite satisfying I guess.

Yeah, it's nice to have, like, a, a slow transition out of university into kind of the real art world, to have things kind of lined up and to have, like, a body of work to kind of keep coming back to and keep making this new proposals with and new places for.

Let's go conceptual first.

Yeah, I was recently working with a friend, reworking my artist statement and trying to figure out how, because I do feel like I'm a little all over the place.

I was like, what's my common theme that others see that I don't? And they were explaining to me, well, all your work is about sanctity.

And I was like, huh? I was like, oh, wait.

You're kind of right.

I think the foundation of my work, whether I'm whatever media material image I'm working with, I am kind of exploring what is sanctity and what can become sacred.

I grew up in a very I went to Catholic school for a good chunk of my life.

I don't know where the tipping point comes.