And so how do we find that balance of not judging, but also discerning enough what feels, like you said, gospel-centered?

Yeah, yeah.

So I think it's so much of like checking in with yourself, because in that case, right, like someone condemning someone, someone is a red flag.

It's something to like be alarmed by.

But yeah, people will react the same way about different kind of worship.

Or, right, or like you said, different kind of way of communion or different kinds of things.

And so if we are, we have to kind of pay attention to what we're reacting to and how, like what we're processing through when we experience these different things.

Please help.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think the first part is to recognize that peace should not be circumstantial.

So if we have.

Right.

Scripture says that peace have given to you.

Right.

So I'm going to put this little G with a

Was there something that happened to you in like your early experiences and kind of evangelicalism that led you to recognize this? Or this is stuff that you heard about and read?

Yeah, yeah.

So the church I currently work in is the third church I have worked in.

I never thought I would be working in a church, but the Lord does things.

So the first church I worked in was here in New York.

It was in Harlem.

And the example I just gave of a diverse congregation, the leadership was not.

to pick one of your kids, like picking which one.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, but you also want something fun for your kids to watch.

You want it to be interesting.

You want, you want something fun and biblical, fun and true, something that points them back to Jesus.

And that's where Minnow comes in.

Minnow makes it simple for families to grow in faith together.

It's the number one destination for Christian kids content, with shows that feed both imagination and understanding of who God is.

It's, particularly the faith part.

What are some false, as you call them, false pieces, false piece, like things that look like unity or goals of unity that actually aren't very helpful or biblical.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would say one is peacekeeping, like everything seeming fine.

Everyone seems to like be loving it as the young people say vibes, right? Like it all just seems fine.

cohesive and like the church is like oh wow they seem just like they're they have it all together and they have no problems and they have they're doing it all right and they're all healthy um when perhaps in inside that's not necessarily the case so um that that also i would call like performative unity right like so peacekeeping i would call performative unity like it's trying to be this thing but it's doing it in like the effortless way the easy way um i would also say like yeah like sameness like deciding that like we all have to agree um which you know people make fun of me how much how often i say the word cult but i'm like that's literally what a cult is like right like that you cannot disagree if you disagree that you are like exiled that's that's so much a part of what um kind of encompasses a cult and and so like we're actually supposed to disagree And what I find so strange with churches and Christian spaces where we're saying we shouldn't disagree, I'm like, so you mean to tell me in your household with your parents, your family, your kids, your grandkids, nobody disagrees on anything? Everybody agrees on everything? So it's like, why do we only pretend one place It's supposed to like, everyone's supposed to agree, but then everywhere else in life, it is okay for us to disagree.

Like, it's very strange to have that expectation.

I just, I don't know, for me always, when I look back at things I didn't do well, I don't know, I find it helpful to say, how can I not do that again and help others to not do that? Do you have any of those moments?

We should work for peace and unity.

Yeah, I think division is necessary when in spaces or cultures or ministries, it seems like oppression, pride, dehumanization are like norms that aren't used as like the words.

Those words are not used, but like that is like the norm and the culture of the space.

Like I'm like, OK, that's a time to divide.

Right.

Because that's just not.

the way of Jesus.

So how do we do this? How are you going to help the church? What are you going to do? Help us move back into a place where we can see difference and love one another in spite of it.