in Ireland has done a really poor job of sort of explaining why it's so important of of being out there and advocating for it and and because like I don't know about you I'm sure it's the same but like whenever I talk about organic growing and and the way we do things here you just get people saying straight away oh it's so expensive and there's never any focus on the benefits of it you know and and like I think there's so much more could be done to really get that across to consumers

Yeah, and I think this is the challenge across the board because that messaging has already been concreted into everyone's mind that organics equals more expensive or something negative.

And look, that's been set into the psyche by people who care little for organics or are challenged by organics or are challenged by the sector.

And it's hard to pull those things back out of people's heads because, in fact, there isn't an awful lot of difference in a lot of organic produce.

You know, whether it's vegetables, beef and lamb shouldn't be much different because the system is essentially the same.

Pork and poultry, yes, you know, because you are reliant on organic grains and they are more expensive, particularly we don't grow enough of them in our own country.

But...

From your perspective, what does a truly kind of sustainable, resilient food system look like? I mean, with your worldview around organics and around farming, what do you think? If you had a blank piece of paper and all the power in the world tomorrow?

So how's it going? I suppose a kind of update on the project.

Yeah, it's going great.

And we're still exploring, you know, what it means to be a regenerative farmer in Ireland.

We had a really good survey.

We got the results from that a couple of months ago.

We had 315 farmers engage with the survey, farmers who are interested in regenerative agriculture.

We're going to have them...

And I suppose another question for you, Pippa, how do you think Michael Healy rated with following on from yourself, I suppose, in the role of Minister for State and in his term of doing it there?