So, you know, before we go into the deep talk, I wanna ask you, when you look back at your own healing journey, was there a particular moment when you realized that the psychological work and the spiritual journey were not two separate paths, but just one path being walked with two different kind of awarenesses?

Yeah, I mean, I think the, the main thing that I would share about that is that I was...

You know, I, I sought out spiritual groups and spiritual practice as a way of healing, I guess, like you would just say, the hurt in my heart, um, from difficult experiences as a child.

And, um, what happened for me was...

There were two things that happened, so I, I hope I can share them both.

One is I had a moment, um, while I was kind of deep in this trying to do a spiritual practice, where I had a realization that I wanted to be loved by God, but actually I really wanted to be loved by people.

So that kind of made me realize that I had some healing to do on a psychological, emotional, mental level, um, and that I had sort of transferred some of my emotional issues onto my spiritual practice and, um, and that they needed, for a time at least, to be separated.

Like, I'm just curious, what do you think most people misunderstand about healing itself and where it actually begins?