May I ask, what is that genealogy?

Well, the genealogy, in the sense of the actual history, I mean, this has to be very potted.

And I'm really a consumer of the history rather than a producer of the history.

I'm more a philosopher than a historian.

But the history goes pretty clearly, in my view, as follows.

Polybius, who's a Greek slave, comes as a hostage to Rome in the second century BCE.

He gets to be free, I mean, after so many years, and he's been living with a very wealthy family.

Is that something that at all is part of the Republican tradition or part of your conception of it?

May I ask, what is that genealogy?

Well, the genealogy, in the sense of the actual history, I mean, this has to be very potted.

And I'm really a consumer of the history rather than a producer of the history.

I'm more a philosopher than a historian.

But the history goes pretty clearly, in my view, as follows.

Polybius, who's a Greek slave, comes as a hostage to Rome in the second century BCE.

He gets to be free, I mean, after so many years, and he's been living with a very wealthy family.

Is that something that at all is part of the Republican tradition or part of your conception of it?

Draw, draw from them, draw from these different strands.

Oh, yes.

I think shared amongst, uh, all of these people is the idea that to be free, it's not enough just that you happen not to be interfered with because, you know, there are powers in your life, but they're nice to you or they're gentle or they're indulgent.

That's not enough.

The notion of the freeman, which becomes the English translation of a liber, the Latin liber, notion of a free man is of someone who can walk tall, look others in the eye and be their own person, be their own man, as it usually was, as I said.

That's really common to, to all of these people, I would say on the American side or to most.

I mean, that's generalization on my part.

Is there a conception of freedom that could get into what is the more positive relationships, the more the way things should be in the relationships between people? Is that something that at all is part of the Republican tradition or part of your conception of it?

Draw from these different strands.

Oh, yes.

I think shared amongst, uh, all of these people is the idea that to be free, it's not enough just that you happen not to be interfered with because, you know, there are powers in your life, but they're nice to you or they're gentle or they're indulgent.

That's not enough.

The notion of the freeman, which becomes the English translation of a liber, the Latin liber, notion of a free man is of someone who can walk tall, look others in the eye, and be their own person, be their own man, as it usually was, as I said.

That's really common to, to all of these people, I would say on the American side or to most.

I mean, that's generalization on my part.

Is there a conception of freedom that could get into what is the more positive relationships, the more the way things should be in the relationships between people? Is that something that at all is part of the Republican tradition or part of your conception of it?

Mm

...

in the sense of the, the chimps', uh, communication.

And then what I argue, just to give you this first sort of, uh, rung on the ladder that I characterize in the book, is that what they'd quickly discover...

Of course, this is just speculation.

What I say is this would be very likely, robustly likely, as in it wouldn't take a miracle for them to discover, regardless of how things were, they'd be likely to discover that actually they themselves benefit from giving information to others as well as benefiting from the information they get.

Because you ask me, let's suppose I'm in a higher level than you, "What's that animal?" in the difference.

Yeah