And then I'm also curious what parallel behaviors maybe are you seeing now in the mutual insurance company space that you see today with bank on yourself type policies?

Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head there, Mark, because that timeline, I think, is really important.

And I think what it creates in publicly traded type institutions is that they can be a little bit short-sighted.

Every quarter, maybe even every year, they have to produce that report that shows that they've been doing well.

And so that's their kind of timeline horizon that they're looking at.

How can we make the most money right now to show our stockholders that we're being impressive in the way that we're running our business? So a good example, I think, shortly after the COVID pandemic, a lot of banks pulled back from doing home equity loans.

There was a lot of uncertainty in the world.

Now, these days, I'm curious, what are you seeing as opportunities or threats for both credit unions and mutual life companies as the financial industry continues to consolidate and the mega publicly traded giants seem to gobble up all the little