Where do you sit with this?

Well, I said first, as you just rightly pointed out, Pearson, thank you for bringing it up.

Cora, Dawson and Callan lost their lives here.

And you're one of the few that really mentions that in light of the trial.

These three children, their lives have been taken from them.

They'll never grow up.

They'll never have children.

And secondly, do you think if she'd got better, more appropriate help from the medical profession, from the system, if you like, we could have avoided what ended up happening?

Right.

And I, I seriously think it's very likely that she is going to be found, um, not criminally responsible for this.

That's the standard, um, in that state, and it, it's very different, uh, than it is in, uh, in, in Texas.

Uh, with Andrea Yates, the law's not very, um, um, not very conducive, um, a- and helpful.

Uh, but in Massachusetts, um, you don't have to prove the same thing, and, um, I, I think what they're gonna have to prove there, um, is, i- is, i- is completely different.

Uh, what they have to do is just prove that she didn't have the capacity to know what she was doing or comply with the law.

And if they can show that, uh, she won't be acquitted, uh, she will be found not criminally responsible, and she'll be sent to a psychiatric facility.

Okay

But Dr. Phil isn't phased.

I was very grateful for the kind words she said in the article.

She said I put him on the show because I believed in his wisdom and his words and everything that he had to offer.

And do we agree on everything, you know, culturally? No, we didn't then.

We don't now.

But she and I, we have never had a crossword.

This year, the couple is celebrating 50 years of marriage.

We got married in a little chapel, walked out the door into a hallway, and had punch and cookies.

Am I right or wrong on that?

I think you couldn't be more correct.

I believe that the family The family unit is the backbone of this country.

I think it's the backbone of any country.

I think how much you can break things down, I guess you can break it down to states, regions, communities or whatever, but you really break it down to the family unit.

And family has been under attack in America for a long time.

I wrote a book back in 2004, I believe it was, called Family First.

And

See it in action at Gendigital.com.

That's not who they are.

And sometimes do.

Yes, exactly.

But that's not who they are.

Who they are is multidimensional.

It cuts across time.

So the question that begs is, well, look, if I can stay silent and other people are comfortable... then why shouldn't I stay silent? And so let's walk

Again, the internet is such a great tool for so many reasons, but if you could go back in time and you could say, "This is going to be the results of what this is going to create," is it more harmful to our society today or more helpful?

Well, c- clearly, clearly, uh, this computing power, uh, properly harnessed, has brought so much, uh, information to the fingertips of so many people that I, I have to believe the positives have outweighed the negatives.

It's like so many other things that it's, it's not the use but the misuse of the technology that has created the downside, that's created the, the, the negatives about it.

I, I think the, I, I think the computing power, um, and the technological power overall has been a huge positive.

If, if you look at it across, um, so many different fields, engineering, for example, um, medicine, uh, for example, it, it's, it has brought so much to the fields in, in which it's used that it's saved so many lives and, and created so much in terms of, uh, efficiencies and, and, and s- and savings, uh, that the net positive has got to outweigh the net negatives.

What we need to do is be better at managing the downsides, uh, not indicting the progress and the technology.

We just need to not ignore the downsides and manage them actively.

Yes

So what did you see, and what should we brace ourselves for?

Well, you know, I'm not a Johnny-come-lately to this.

I've been following this for a long time.

I, I started doing some interviews about this, um, ov- over a year ago.

Um, and I, I, I have to say, the, the thing that, um, that, that first impacted me when I started studying, there's, there have been four releases so far.

Um, I, I did get an exclusive look at the fourth one before it, it went public, and I, I think because I've had some conversations with those involved in the current administration, and from a psychological perspective...

Look, I, I'm not an aerospace guy.

Have you seen anything, Phil? In, in your, in your studies, when you, when, when you were asked by the White House to look at the, the UFO files, and say, was there anything that you saw where you thought, "Wow, okay, that to me looks alien."

When the administration reached out to you, how did they tell you what you were being invited to look at? Take me through how that happened.

Well, I will.

We, um...

You know, I, I, I have a relationship, uh, with President Trump and, uh, with many others in the administration.

I, I serve on the Presidential Commission, uh, for Religious Liberty, um, and that involves the Department of Justice and, and other departments that have to do with constitutional rights.

And, um, I, I think they, um, honor me with the belief that, um, I'm a trusted voice in our country.

I've been on the air here, uh, 25 years, uh, talking about things that matter to people who care.

What do you think of the claim that it's just too ontologically shocking to tell Americans this? I, I happen to think that that's a very patronizing view and that Americans are ready.

And what is the big secret, and what does the government have to gain from keeping all this stuff all these years a big secret?

Well, Greta, thanks for having me.

It's good to talk to you.

Um, uh, that's a big question, is, is the why.

And, uh, you know, one of the things that i- is important is that we do inform the American people about this stuff because a lack of information creates anxiety.

It creates, uh, people saying, "What's going on, and, and why are they hiding this, people, for, this information from us?" Which they've been doing for almost 80 years now.

And not only have they been hiding information, they've been misdirecting.

the six-point star-like thing is?

Mm-hmm.

And I'm a strong believer that you need to be who you are on purpose, and you need to own it.

And, and there are things that I, I'm passionate about, and I see them happening, and I, I, I know that I have something to contribute.

I, I don't think I'm the be all, end all.

I'm not the repository of all knowledge in psychology or psychosocial functioning, but I do think I have something to contribute.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I, I think that if, if I can set a good example, I, I don't hold myself out to be a paragon of mental health or whatever.

Uh, but I think if I can set a good example, um, as a husband, a- as a father, um, a- as a, as a Christian, um, as a contributor to society in some way, um, then I, I think I'm, uh, uh, I'm doing a good, I think I'm doing a good thing.

Mm-hmm

... that our objective when we disagree is not to get the other person to agree with us, but to be heard.

In fact, you don't even need to respond.

I'm gonna tell you how I feel, and you tell me how you feel, and then we'll just walk away and let that sit with the other person.

And you know what? If you really love each other and you really wanna make the other person happy, most of the time you will find a way to get the other person most of what they want.

Mm-hmm.

And I d- and I mean that.

I'm not saying that to be politically correct.

[laughs]

Uh, because I think people are more focused on hating Trump than, than loving their country.

And there's another thing that may seem a little off the wall, but I, I think a lot of people suffer from presentism.

And that is, for people that haven't, aren't familiar with the term, it, it describes the, the tendency to hold people to today's standards for something that they did historically when the mores and folk ways and even laws were very different at the time they did what they did.

It's, it's kind of like if, if I drive through a neighborhood every day and the speed limit is 20, and I drive through at 20 every day, and then someday they come in and say, "Well, we're gonna change this to 10, and we're gonna give you a ticket for having driven through here at 20," uh, when the speed limit was 20.

Well, that's not fair.

You can't retroactively give me a ticket, um, when you change the law.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, so I've always defined something, um, normal...

Abnormal is if something is interfering with your healthy life, if it's interfering with your healthy goals, if it's getting in your way.

And normal is if it's facilitating your healthy goals and your healthy life.

And people only get ready to make a change if something is really interfering with what they truly want in their life healthy.

Like, you know, you're a mom.

If you were doing something that in a moment of clarity you could say, "This is really interfering with the quality of my parenting, m- my being there for my child-"Or if there was something you were doing where you could say, "This is really ruining my health, and I wanna live." Unless you can see that and say that, why would you be motivated to stop? Something more powerful than the satisfaction you get for the thing you're doing, whether it's gambling, or exercising too much, or energy drinks, or heroin, or whatever.

[laughs]

Well, I think we would do ourselves a, a real disservice to, um, [clears throat]

[clears throat]... focus on, uh, the, the trans element of this.

I, I think that, um, the fact is, Piers, we know a whole lot more about who the shooters are than we're using right now, and, uh, the, the focusing on the trans aspect of this would, uh, really derail something that needs to be happening, uh, right now, and that is we- look, we don't have the ability to predict who the next shooter is going to be, but we do know, as I say, so much more about who the shooters are, that we have the ability, uh, to be more effective in derailing some of these before they happen.

Uh, we don't have a screening device.

We don't have the ability to pick out which shooter, which student is going to be a shooter or which former student is going to be a shooter.

But we do have information that we're not using, and we need to disseminate that information, and on the shortlist is not going to be trans students.

They are an immaterial, uh, characteristic of who's likely to pick up a gun and shoot.

How much are drugs playing a part, do you think?

(laughs)

It just seems to me, uh, I, I really don't just play a doctor on TV.

I actually did go to school and get several degrees and I know a lot of big words to tell people about ergs and meta ergs and all the motivational terms and all, but the simple fact is if people understand what you're saying, they will embrace it and use it.

If you give them tools that they could use to change their life today, then they will actually do that.

Uh, you know, it, it's, it, it's not, it's, it's not always easy, but you will either find a way or you will find an excuse.

You're gonna find one of the two.

You're either gonna find a way or you're gonna find an excuse.

(laughs)

Oh, wow.

...

I was standing right there, and my staff said, "Yes." They said, "Well, we've got one coming up, and here's the information that, um, you can cont..." We said, "Here's our information.

You can contact us.

We'll come.

We'll get there at our own expense.

All you gotta do is tell us when, tell us where." They said, "Okay, we'll be in touch." Ghosted us.

Of course, of course.

(laughs)

... um, and, and started retreating.

Uh, I, I thought it came across as very whiny, uh, immature, uh, insecure, and inadequate.

And he said he was a racist.

He said he was an incel.

He used that term.

He, he introduced that.

You know, actual robots doing the stuff.

Uh, Dr. Phil, what do you think of more people turning to AI for therapy instead (laughs) instead of seeking out licensed professionals?

Look, I think it's really dangerous, but I, I think, look, less than half of the counties in the United States even have a psychiatric nurse or some kind of, uh, resource, and you know, for some, some elementary sort of things, uh, and, and giving people, uh, fundamental advice for anxiety or depression, uh, it can probably do some good.

It, there, there could probably be some value in it.

But it is really a, a, a dangerous thing, and I've argued with it.

You were saying it always tells you what you wanna hear, but I asked a question the other day, I said, "Tell me what you know about trigger warnings," which are complete bullshit, and it gave me all of this left-leaning stuff about trigger warnings, about how they help with this and help with that, and I said, "Well," I argued with it, I said, "Wait a minute.

How can you completely leave out all of the empirical data that says they don't work, they create anxiety themselves, that you should instead do things like systematic desensitization, immersion therapy, things of that nature?" And it came back and said, "Oh, you're right, I'm sorry.

Here's that research, here's that data." And it gave me all of that.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

... through western North Carolina.

They don't get hurricanes in North Carolina but, uh, n- nothing like this and, um, I- I went there and w- I had some blackhawk heli- blackhawk helicopters and we were able to go into some of these mountain communities that were completely cut off.

You couldn't get there by road or rail.... and they were completely cut off.

And we went in and, and took in, you know, Starlink so people could have connectivity and took them food and water and this sort of thing.

And I have to tell you, I saw America at its best, because this was a time when people, they didn't care if their neighbor or their friends or who was coming in to help were Democratic, Republican.

They...

Am I, am I being Pollyannaish or are you gonna, are you gonna come with me on this crazy ride? What do you think?

Yes, that's wrong.

... their pictures, their addresses of their families on the internet.

They're putting them on telephone poles.

So of course they're wearing masks so they don't get outed so people can do violence against their families.

The- the- the- the negative actions against ICE agents are up 1000% in the last several months, 130% violence against them.

Uh, and- and why them? They didn't make the laws.

They- they didn't make that law.

Or the other way around.

What, what was that?

Well, Ben, um, one thing that Tom Homan of Homeland Security and ICE want is transparency about what they're doing.

And, uh, I, I did, uh, interview, uh, Tom before the, uh, operation started, and, uh, I was at ICE headquarters in LA to, uh, talk about it before it began.

Uh, I was not embedded with the agents when they made the, um, uh, actual, uh, arrest, uh, but I was with Tom, uh, himself, and, uh, we hung back and let them do what they were doing.

Uh, and then we got back on the streets when the, uh, protests started.

And, uh, one of the things that I've, uh, been impacted by is how different what actually happened, uh, is with what's been reported by the legacy media.

Uh, what actually went down here is this was a inter-agency operation, um, and not all the agencies were involved with every, uh, stop on the, on the way.

What did you actually see in, in LA?

Um, just give me an overview, uh, Phil, about what is going on in Los Angeles and where your biggest sympathies lie.

Piers, it's good to talk to you again.

And, um, once again, I, I think the, the mainstream media, the legacy media, uh, are... they're just ignoring the facts here.

Uh, they're really wanting to inflame the situation.

They're not wanting to inform people about what's really going on.

Um, and I'm really not sure what the objective is of the mob here.

Uh, I listened to a lot of the speakers on microphones, uh, last night, yesterday, really since this all started, and they're demanding the release of the people that were arrested.

Mm.

And, uh, I've made that point of view very- very public.

Well, this is one of the things where I say that I- I believe that activists are pushing an agenda, and, uh, I've had so many, uh, transgender individuals on the show, uh, over the last 25 years, um, and I can tell you that they have said to me, uh, on the air and off, uh, mostly off the air, that they'd wish those people would shut up.

Uh, these shrill activists that are pushing these extreme positions, that- they're not speaking for us, they're not speaking for the community at large, um, and they say, "Look, we're living our lives, and there are enough challenges as it is without them pushing these extreme controversial issues, uh, that we don't particularly as- ascribe to.

Um, they're not helping us," that's- that's something that they are just trying to rewrite biology on, or they're trying to make a- a- a battleground and- (clears throat) and, uh, they- they do it effectively.

I- I had Professor Carole Hooven on from University, uh, Harvard University, and, uh, she had- she didn't even do the research.

She was just reporting, did a meta-analysis on, I think it was 50 plus studies, um, of others that had looked at the- the biological markers to see whether or not you could balance the playing field, uh, among elite athletes, and, uh, she looked at if you have testosterone blockers, if you have hormone suppression therapy, and, uh, for the required two years, uh, before and after poverty loo- puberty looked at every possible way.

And the meta-analysis conclusion for good methodology with good N, uh, you know, right number of subjects, and they concluded you just can't get there.

(laughs) (clears throat)

Phil right now?

Well, you know, Governor, I'm- I'm glad you asked that question because I have to say, I'm probably the- the least political person I know, although I have certainly been painted with that brush, um, of late, and- and not completely, um, uh, hard to understand, but...

And- and I say that I'm not political, uh, because I deal with cultural issues, psychosocial issues, um, and- and I differentiate that from politics because, uh, frankly, I'm not very sophisticated in the political arena.

I don't know a lot about it.

Um, you know, I can watch that after-school special about how a- a bill becomes a law and all of that, and, uh, I learn something every time I watch it again.

And I'm not, uh, I- I'm not...

That's not false humility.

Not something you see necessarily, uh, on some of, uh, uh, on some of these cable shows, in order to sort of highlight and reinforce the importance of not just misinformation, uh, or disinformation, but what is omitted, uh, a- from our conversation.

What can we do as a society to help young men?

Uh, I'm so glad you bring that up because, you know, I, I've said to parents for 30, 45 years, um, you know, starting when I began in, in private practice and certainly when I've been on the air speaking to millions of people, that, uh, you know, you're not gonna be the only voice in your child's ear, so you need to make sure you're the best voice in your child's ear.

And, uh, I, I think that so often, uh, as, as parents, we're, we're not very glamorous voices (laughs) in our child's ear compared to, uh, what they see on social media and, and the media in, in general.

And I really worry of late, uh, when you look at the ratio of, of, um, these kind of woke left professors in universities versus, uh, the more conservative professors in universities, it's way overbalanced.

And, and so many of them...... for a while, there was this idea of toxic masculinity and then it kind of became that masculinity itself is toxic.

And, and, and so it, it leaves a void of what is masculinity? And what is okay? Um, (clears throat) and that's where people like Andrew Tate can find a hole and a wedge to get in there and give bad information to young men where they don't understand, uh, the difference between being masculine, but treating women with dignity, and respect, and knowing where boundaries are.

Um, and I, I think that's a failure of society to have good role models.

Mm.