So then, you know, why this cut? And what's been the fallout of the cuts? I mean, has there been, you know, interruptions in treatment? Have infections come back? What is this looking like on the ground? I know you had to leave at this time, but what have been the impacts on the ground?

Yeah, I left Zambia in February of 2025, and then I subsequently kept in touch, close contact, because I was invested in the country and in our work there.

So I kept in touch with contacts and friends, both Zambian and international.

And I think what is important for listeners to understand is that The cuts, why the cuts was, you know, that's an administration's choice, right? The incoming administration chooses to affect the policy that it sets both domestically and internationally.

We all understand that as foreign service officers.

um i think what was striking about those cuts is that pepfar in particular had had such strong bipartisan support for decades as you mentioned in your intro literally 20 years the program was started by george w bush famously as a way of not just alleviating suffering in africa but also demonstrating america's core humanitarian values and that is a core u.s national interest in my opinion and in in the opinion of many uh people is that we do have many interests including one is is caring and demonstrating our humanitarian values around the world and that's earned us a lot of soft power over uh over the years so know the the pepfar program had enormous bipartisan support through republican administrations as well as democratic through republican held congresses as well as democratic uh congresses uh over 20 years at remarkable levels of uh of funding and and human resources that were uh required to generate these results which are truly uh astonishing as you as you mentioned uh in zambia we estimate that you know we contributed the us pepfar support contributed to that life expectancy uh average life expectancy jumping over 20 years for the average zambian uh in in this in the space of two decades that's not only because of u.s support we contributed to it but we we believe that our support through pepfar and many other programs uh were responsible for that really kind of impressive number that's only in zambia and you could also just kind of cite uh other countries across africa and also in other parts of the world as well so i think i think that that gets to the uh point of your point about the cuts What's the impact? Again, I've been gone for over a year now, but I think we have a lot of anecdotal information as well as news media reports that suggest that obviously just on a very basic level, the amount of resources that are now in the country to be devoted to those who are infected, as well as to help prevent new cases, new infections of HIV, those resources have gone down significantly.

The U.S. cuts have been important and large, but also other donors have pulled back, I think, as a direct consequence of the U.S., let's say, stepping back in its leadership role.

to find its way back in this bilateral relationship?