Would that surprise you? Do you think FSG have always had some sort of exit strategy in mind, or are they very much in this for the long term in your mind?

It's been 16 years now, but there's always an exit strategy.

There has to be.

I mean, that is financial responsibility to say, what would it take? What's our timeline? Where are we? John and Tom, I think, are both 76 years of age, respectively.

As a guy in his 70s, you start thinking about your estate and and how you leave things behind.

So from that perspective – and you may be getting some pressure as well from the other partners who are invested in this who maybe don't have certainly the high profile that John Tom and to a lesser extent Mike Gordon have.

But from the perspective, they're saying, hey, look, we need out or we would like to be able to cash out.

Do you think Liverpool fans should be worried in any respect or they can be calm that things are going to be okay for the club whatever happens here?

And to see that Inf- Gianni Infantino's been backed by other executives, what's your reaction?

Well, it's, uh, [laughs] it's still nighttime here in California, so I've been reading about it for the last few hours.

But, um, I'm a little surprised given, to your point, all of the statements coming out from the federations that were just bluntly eviscerating him.

Um, he's got an election in the future.

We'll see.

I was, um, uh, not surprised that, that he was able and, you know, I'll, I'll quote myself, "strong-arm his executive team into giving him a, a vote of confidence today." But, you know, it's football.

You, you, you know [laughs] when, when the manager gets the vote of confidence from the board, you know what typically happens in the future.

and people think the actual end product is good, what, what does that mean to you?

Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also knew what they needed to do, rebuild the main stand, ultimately get Anfield Road redone and build again an infrastructure that is not sexy maybe to the fans.

It's not a centre forward that can score goals, but you're building a sustainable environment where game day revenues start to match or much more so than a Manchester City or even a Manchester United.

And so but yeah, I mean, every day were the discussions, strongly worded emails.

I mean, sure.

But that's football is no different than any business.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

To find out more about why this is happening in gaming, I've been talking to former Xbox executive, Peter Moore.

Well, I think at a macro level, you're seeing Microsoft kind of reposition its business in advance of AI.

As you may know, uh, change in leadership with, with Asha Sharma coming in, and Satya Nadella, um, you know, obviously the CEO, has been pretty critical that the investment made in gaming, uh, uh, and in Xbox in particular at a, an overall level within Microsoft has not paid off to the level he would expect its divisions to be doing.

Their, their margins are thin.

They've invested tens of billions of dollars in gaming, and it simply needs what Asha this morning has called a complete reset.

And a reset, unfortunately, is involving thousands of job losses and as well as spinning off studios into independent ownership.

I think four or five studios are going as well.

And when Asha Sharma says these changes are all about a bigger future for Xbox, not a smaller one, how do, how does she square that with thousands of people who work in that part of the Microsoft business losing their jobs? Or is it just talk? Is that just gloss?

Would, would that be the, the sort of perfect legacy for you?

Yeah.

I mean, uh, not only did I know Joey, I played with Joey in North East Wales representative teams.

And, uh, most famously, Joey, Mickey, and I were on a, a touring team in Germany in 1972.

Joey was left back, I was right back, Mickey was in the midfield and, uh, you know, it was, um, my abiding memories of, uh, you know, wingers didn't get past either of us, uh, you know, in, in those days.

Joey went on to great things and, and I still stayed in touch with him.

[coughs] Excuse me.

How did that come about?

Peter Moore is the former CEO of Liverpool FC and a man who knows a thing or two about innovation and attracting younger audiences from his time as head of EA Sports and overseeing Xbox at Microsoft.

Traditional sport has to adapt and bring along younger consumers who didn't grow up like I did, going to a game with their dad, and it's just not the way.

They, they don't even exist in the living room for most part.

They're, they're in bedrooms.

They're consuming YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, bite-size entertainment.

And so I think traditional sport probably has to adapt to bring them along.

All of these, uh, you know, formats that you just mentioned sit on the periphery.

Sports execs like yourself, is it something that you're taking note of?

And so to mark it, we got the thoughts of former CEO Peter Moore, where he's reminiscing on the significance of appointing Klopp.

From the perspective of being the CEO, we, we, we went to Kiev, disappointment there, but you could just sense we're ready to go back again next year to Madrid and, and we're successful there.

So yes, and I saw that and I attended every single game, uh, during my tenure there.

Uh, and so I saw the Klopp effect, if you will, firsthand, um, of embracing, um, you know, what Liverpool Football Club was all about.

Uh, uh, you know, directing that in the right way, the fans, the stadium, the squad, the ownership group, the staff, and, and making sure we all understood what the North Star was, which was not only to get back as Premier League champions, or to be our first Premier League championship, but also to get back as what we call in Liverpool European royalty.

Uh, and, and ultimately get back on our perch, as, has-

Mm-hmm.

... been famously talked about.

this morning I thought it was fantastic the mad thing is like I say Peter this interview could take two hours because you've done so much whether it be in the trainers world in the video game world in the football sports world it's been absolutely crazy but I think how does a lad who was born post-war in Liverpool end up eventually just like getting to the point where you're moving to America and you're working at Reebok and EA Sports I mean that is a very atypical path for anybody's life I think you have had a one of one life there

Yeah, I think, you know, you leverage where you come from.

And, you know, I talk a lot about, you know, being born in Liverpool and what that means for being a Scouser and the kind of genetic personalities we have that if you use it well around the world, being British in general, Americans for some reason think when we speak with a British accent, which I don't have anymore, but when I first came to America, that somehow we're smarter and more intellectual.

And so you leverage that.

Growing up in a pub, and serving behind the bar when I was 11 years of age and my dad let me open the pub and getting to be an adult early, being a PE teacher, which I always say was, you know, getting 35 boys eight times a day to do something they never wanted to do, which is get out there in the snow of North Wales and play rugby and football.

And so that all comes together, which is you.

And when I arrived and I took a chance, I...

you come over quite a lot but all throughout this book I found it interesting that you do refer to Liverpool the city pretty much every step of the way it's like I learnt this in Liverpool the people in Liverpool taught me this I mean that has never wavered that comes across in the book I'm guessing that's something you're proud of that you're from here and you've used that like you say you've leveraged that in you've used that to your advantage

What was it that made you think, you know what, we can go for Nike, we can really push them? Because like I say, there will be other businesses who will be quite content to go, we're happy being here, but you guys really did shoot for the stars

there.

Well, you know, I did 10 years of Patrick, you know, and you've got to be old to remember Patrick Boots, but they were... a cult following of boots.

And that's where I got my first ever real job in America was driving around Southern California in a Toyota Camry with my samples of my Keegan Golds and my Michel Platini Supers and selling those door to door.

This is 15 years before the internet.

And this is, you know, going to phone boxes, getting yellow pages, writing down the address and getting a map out and then driving to the sporting goods store and cold calling.

So my life, that's where I got my first real job.

I know you mentioned the book, but there was no way you were coming back to England until this person said to you, do you want to work for Liverpool? That's fair to say.