But why was he the man to get you out of trouble? And not just that, but go on to lift the Australia Cup, if you don't mind.

Well, it's an incredible story, isn't it? I didn't know at the time, some of the articles that came out afterwards, how much he'd tried to get jobs and he said he'd gone to something like 100 interviews and hadn't been able to get a job.

But I wasn't aware it was that difficult.

Look, I had five years with Sinister in the juniors, so we were working together every day.

So you build a very strong relationship.

Through that period, I sort of realized that he was more a senior coach than a technical director for different reasons.

So once I understood that, I knew that, you know, he was looking for that opportunity.

Or maybe you said that he was a better senior manager as opposed to a technical director working with the kids.

Yeah, yeah.

Don't invest in your football programs.

Don't invest in medical teams.

Don't give your kids the opportunity to dream.

It's a, it's, it's been, the, the system's stopped that for so many years, and the Australian Championship has shown that, um, it's given the opportunity for investment, coaches, players.

When we, when we, um, uh, sort of reached out to the players and said, "We're going on a journey now," and the new leadership came in with Bill and Andrew, and we sat down and we had a vision that, you know, we want to rise above the NPL and start being ambitious.

Um, uh, we, we reached out to the players and asked them, you know, "Guys, are you up for this?" Um, and some of the guys, I mean, a portion of that squad is not at a, you know, age demographic where they're looking to play above South Melbourne.

For yourself?