And there's a lot to talk about, but maybe to start, I was wondering what made you, and we already started talking about it a little bit before we started recording, but what made you as a historian write about how the lessons from, uh, quite ancient parts of history apply to today? And also, to what extent do you think that the story of the rise and fall of the Roman Empire and the lessons from that are sort of universal and applicable to all the great empires, including the Western one of the present day?

The thing is, as a historian...

You're studying the past, but you're always thinking about the past in terms of everything you understand about human beings and the way that they operate.

And ever since the 1990s, or even a little bit before, my thinking had been very strongly influenced by what was at that point only just beginning to be called globalisation.

in terms of the way in which interactions between more developed and less developed parts of the globe generate transformations actually in both parts.

But particularly at that point, what was obvious was the changes going on in the developing world.

It's a very interesting process.

And I wonder why, what's your answer to why do you think that tends to happen, that the collapse tends to happen when the empires or right after the empires are at the peak of their strength and wealth and influence? And what is it that then goes wrong? And why does it go wrong at that moment?

Mm-hmm

... of the Roman Empire.

So we got a Gallic Empire that lasts for two generations in the second and third quarter of the third century.

Why this is important is the way that the empire actually overcomes the crisis then shapes the nature of where we are.

In the fourth century.

And in particular, I suppose two things stand out.

One is we refashion the military.

And the Romans are minded to let them in or not?