[laughs]

...

I remember, 'cause there was a...

No, it might have been a different tournament actually, but it was the same s- group.

Yeah.

'Cause J- was it Colin Murphy? Remember him? Yes.

And I think he was manager or something.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm

... totally their decision as well.

But, um, I, I do think it would be well-supported.

Um, as, as regards to why, I mean, I played with Thomas Hitzlsperger who, who, who, who has come out, uh, as gay.

I played with him at Aston Villa.

Um, but yet, you know, he felt he, he couldn't come out, uh, at the time, um, for, for whatever reason.

Uh, he came out afterwards.

Uh, so yeah, maybe it's a class thing too.

I don't

get it.

Let me explain to you.

Crouchy.

No, I'll tell you what, because what it was, actually someone printed them up for me because I said in an interview once that people, when they see me, quite often if they don't know me or know where I am, they'll ask the same, and tall people in general will tell you the exact same thing.

They'll go, what's the weather like up there? Right? Yeah, okay.

do you play basketball? And how tall are you? Right? So I just answered all three of those questions that you were about to answer.

I'm playing with you here.

Uh, I think-

think-Connection-wise probably, yeah.

Because also he wasn't, like, Defoe, me and Defoe were great, but he- Great at scoring.

He very rarely passed.

[laughs] I love him- He could score- I love him to pieces ... goals But, no, no, one of the greatest goal scorers of, you know- Yeah ... absolutely.

You know, reminded me of you, right.

He was, he was a genius at finishing.

It's true then, Crouchy.

Why?

I could not tell you.

I genuinely think now if someone came out as gay in a dressing room, I think they'd be very well supported.

I think in a Premier League dressing room.

Yeah, of course you're going to have idiots in the crowd.

I think people that are, you know... maybe stuck in the dark ages.

We've seen it with racism.

So yeah, maybe it's a class thing too.

And so, yeah, keen to get your thoughts on what that means, especially from an innovation standpoint, because those two things are obviously going to be very interlinked right over the next few years.

Yeah, yeah.

My fault for bringing up AI, but you can't go, as we say, an hour without it.

And you've raised a number of great points there.

We've heard the phrase experiment.

Is it experimentitis? really, isn't it, that's in there.

But as you're right, AI just dominating the press and to be understood because it is just moving at an absolutely electric pace.

But I guess, what are you thinking about that from a cultural standpoint as you think about how do we take this innovation capability that we are building and making it work? What's on the agenda from that standpoint?

Have you ever been up in a hot air balloon before?

No, I haven't.

No.

And I was dreading it, to be quite honest.

Like, obviously I'm, I'm a tall man, I'm used to heights, but 2,000 foot in a, in, in a hot air balloon was not on my bucket list really.

But, uh, yeah, we went up there.

I realized that obviously, like, it was seven foot was the, where all the hot air goes, where the fire was.

Um, give us your headline thoughts on that, if you don't mind.

Was that a fear, was it? A proper fear of yours?

A, a 100...

Of course it was.

I don't wanna be that one per- who gets one cap, you know? Um, and I got injured for the first game, and my debut was in the second game in, uh, USA, and I, I, I did quite well.

Um, but then obviously my next, I got called up to the next one, and thankfully, you know, my England career sort of progressed.

But I looked at it like Rio's talking about, you know, with ultra confidence that he should be playing every single game.

Mine was, "I know I'm not better than Wayne Rooney or Michael Owen.

Why are you all now sitting here having had brilliant England careers, but you never lifted a trophy for England? What wasn't right in your era?

How was it? How was he, should I say?

Well, listen, I've had you both on, right? And it's always great catching up because we go way back.

And, you know, even talking about those stories about me in the car in the youth team days, you know, you had the same stories.

It's just nice to catch up.

And you're like the same thing, really.

Like how often do I give you a bell and let's catch up about things? But when you're sitting here on a podcast like this, it gives you the opportunity to reminisce and just, you know, have a bit of fun.

And obviously, you know, Joe was doing his book and we talked about, you know, what he'd put in his book and, yeah and you just go back over all stories it just triggers things in your brain you know you go oh my god remember that remember this and yeah we're not 16 70 on an island the milk cup yeah and you're talking about that again and you know you can't sit at home talk to your mrs borah about to tears about the milk cup i could sit there with joe or you and yeah and we're having a great time together and i think that's kind of the beauty of the podcast really that's top

What happens? This is

What is the psychological archetype, the common psychological archetype of top flight footballers in your experience?

Yeah, I think, um ...

Look, I got to a, to a top level, right? I got to, you know, Premier League, I played for my country, I played in the Champions League and, you know, I've, I've won a small amount but I...

you know, I- I'm very proud of the career I had.

But I still class myself as, yeah, I got to a top level.

But I would not class myself as, as, as elite, um, because I, I saw the elite and that was, that was a different mentality to what I had.

I, I, I enjoyed myself.

We're calm.

But how good was he, Fernando Torres? I mean, he came into the Premier League and just lit everything on fire.

Yeah, I mean, he's the reason I left, right? You're watching.

No, he is.

He is because, you know, I just looked at the partnership between him and Stevie, right? It's like having a, you know, it's like an ex-wife.

It's like a girlfriend, right? And you see her with someone else and they're blossoming.

And you're like, oh.

Oh, there you go.

How's that going?

What do you think? You're obviously embedded with Liverpool.

Yeah, no, I think like at the start of the season, how many managers come in after Jurgen Klopp, who's a legend at the club, like a fan base absolutely adored him as much as anyone who's managed Liverpool.

So for him to come in, and how many managers would tolerate not signing a player after that? Not one player.

Great excuse you can have as well, isn't it? Yeah, he's got that.

And I think there was no kick-off.

He just got on with the tactics.

And listen, Jurgen Klopp left a legacy.

It's