How much of it did you actually believe? Did you do fact checking? What are you thinking as he's telling you these wild stories?

At the time, it was talking to him.

So the second interview lasted three hours.

It was a very long conversation.

And we were at a restaurant, local Mexican restaurant.

And it was kind of like treading water because I was just trying to keep up with all the things that he was throwing at me.

A lot of story.

At 30 seconds, what did you pick up on about the way he viewed these women? Did you sense something was wrong or you kind of just kept it moving?

Did you find certain things to be true, certain things to be false? Actually, I found

things that Ellie and Ryan found to be true.

I mean, he told me these crazy stories about being a fugitive in New Zealand.

Turned out to be true.

About spending time in jail for counterfeiting money.

Turned out to be true.

um and then he said uh he had a massive amphetamine cooking business uh where he sort of awkwardly compared himself to breaking bad it was a very weird moment because he said um i think there's a show that i think is called break i mean i think we have a clip of that too actually that i think is called breaking bad breaking bad was the most popular show on television at the time to to feign like i don't know maybe there's a show that i sort of barely heard about And maybe that's me.

I mean, was there any indication from anything now that you in hindsight look back?