What can educators learn from journalists about using metaphor, but even just beyond metaphor, the, the skills that you employ in journalism, what can educators glean from what you've learned?

Well, what we are good at is grabbing people and holding their attention because we have no choice.

Um, a students who signed up for a course presumably wants to complete the course and get a grade.

Somebody reading what we write or, or listening to w- what we broadcast as in the case of someone like Stacey Vanek Smith would, um... can turn it off, turn the page, close down the computer in an instant, and very often they do.

So our goal is to, to keep them as long as we can and grab them by the lapels and, and, and hold them and, and see if we can get that idea across.

Uh, Mike Mandel, I mentioned him earlier, used to tell me, "One idea.

Just get one idea across and you can go home happy.

Are there, uh, metaphors that you wish the profession would retire? Like, they're, they're tired, you wish economists or economic journalists would just stop using them.

What have they meant for you financially?

Well of course they've made a big difference.

As most farmers know we have our good years and bad years and to have an income source that's not related to weather and commodity prices is certainly a privilege and It's meant that we've been able to go ahead and, like all farmers, I think most farmers have debt, buying out family, et cetera, et cetera.

So to have a positive income stream, it's meant that we've been able to establish this scholarship, which the family have got a lot of joy out of.

And also infrastructure.

We've built ourselves a modern wool shed and pretty much with the proceeds of the wind farm.

So...

The scholarship you mentioned, that's where you take some of the revenue from having the turbines and you provide scholarships for regional young people to head off to university for study?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's more true now than when I started.

When I started, there were a lot of jobs.

You know, when I was in college and I went around to all these sm- newspapers in New England, you know, Worcester, Mass and Hartford, Connecticut, and New Haven and so on, they all had pretty substantial newsrooms.

Those newspapers now have drastically shrunk, uh, to their newsroom, so it's really hard to get a job with one of...

Now, there are new outlets of course.

Right.