Yes.

Do you list the number that they're paid guaranteed? Do you list the number with bonuses? The agents bump the number up.

It's like in the NFL, like when they, when somebody signs a big deal.

Like, what...

Is it the guaranteed money or do you include all the bonus money? Is it that? Is it up to? So there's, there's ways that these things can be, can be nebulous.

But nothing stood out looking at the, the, the chart in the reporting of that that is like, "Whoa, they're way off there," um, you know, with the, with, with a particular school.

I think the teams we know that spend are the spenders, um, as, as they listed them.

What does this tell you with Steve Belichick resigning, Michael Lombardi resigning, and then that, uh, investigation happening? What do we think this means for Coach Bill Belichick and the UNC Tar Heels at this point?

Um, how do you see the game going? Who do you like?

I mean, it's hard to, to, to not like Alabama.

I still have the, the New Mexico State players running unencumbered, uh, through the Florida State backfield seared into, seared into my mind.

Uh, so i-i-- again, uh, the, the defense got better against SMU.

Um, there were less sort of gashes and, gashes and gaps.

But I, I think what, what Florida State is right now, Reese, is a, you know, mid-tier ACC team, and they're funded like a mid-tier ACC team.

They're not in the top three, four, five of the ACC in, in, in funding, and that's really what this new AD needs to come solve, right? You need to-- If you're at Florida State, if you're at Miami, if you're at Clemson, you need to look like and spend like Alabama, LSU, uh, Georgia, whoever it is.

Mm-hmm.

mean, you walk

by a courtroom and there's literally a digital sign that says, do not talk to the inmates.

So like that, like I walked by that side like 15 times.

So just like, and there's people who, you know, appeared to commit crimes going through their daily things.

And then at the end, you have 14 student athletes.

That was a powerful visual in that courtroom yesterday, right? 14 student athletes.

And you have SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey on the stand for three plus hours.

Okay, so you say the federal case, it was news to everybody while Sankey was on the stand, which begs the question, now that the local courts have ruled, what is next in this whole saga? Is this something that's going to be, we might get an answer to from the federal level within the season? Is this going to drag on? What could the possible fallout be once this federal court case starts?

And just describe the day for us.

Yeah, Paul, I've had some days in my almost 25 years covering National College football, and none have been quite like today.

I'll just set the scene for the listeners and the viewers first, Paul.

We're here right behind me for everybody watching.

You know, at the local state courthouse in Baton Rouge, we're about three miles from Tiger Stadium in downtown Baton Rouge, and there's this cozy, cramped courtroom where there's at least 14 athletes who are among the 44 that are in this state court eligibility lawsuit.

Among them, Zavian Harris and Daquan Wright, the LSU players that have kind of become the faces of this eligibility kerfuffle.

And they were in the courtroom today.

Can you explain where that federal, I mean, other than the impact it had in the courtroom, what else can happen from that federal case? I mean, it's not like we're going to be there tomorrow hearing arguments.

[laughs]

Uh, in college athletics there's no simple solutions to anything, as we've seen especially in the last five years since, uh, since NIL came into play.

Let's peek ahead, Greeny, to, to what's next here, right? How is this showdown between LSU and the SEC, and between these players and this SEC rule going to happen? Now, they, players have a very good argument.

Their lawyers laid it out to me yesterday on text, it's on Twitter, where basically there is already a state injunction, a state temporary restraining order that specifically says they should be allowed to play.

And it generally does account for the rules that the SEC made.

So in order for the SEC to do this, they're gonna have to go backwards against a state rule.

Obviously, LS- that, th- that ruling was made in Batm- Baton Rouge, Louisiana for a reason, right, Greeny? Um, you know, LSU anticipated something like this happening, and these 16 players, some of whom are going to other schools, including UCLA, all have the wording that seemingly would protect them from some of these rules.

Could Lane Kiffin wind up getting suspended before he even coaches a game?

There's just more lawsuits coming to the conferences as opposed to the schools or the NCAA or whoever else was getting sued in the past.

Yeah.

So, so Pat, it's interesting, right? The SEC presidents had a pre-meeting last night on Zoom before their actual meeting in Birmingham today, and they essentially agreed with the, with the spirit of what the Big 10 actually did.

The SEC is in quite a conundrum here because I think philosophically, they don't want players to come back from the NFL.

And in the early conversation I've heard from the SEC is that that's nearly unanimous.

The problem is there are state laws right now that have been enacted, uh, in the state of Louisiana specifically, that allow players to do that.

So if the SEC does follow the Big 10's lead here and ban players from this path, you have to then potentially trump or overcome- ... a, uh, a state law.

... resume and potential future earnings and everything like that?

Yeah, sorry

... a big [laughs] big development, uh, in the Winzy case out of Colorado.

Now, this was the federal case for class of 22 five-for-fives, all right? And the initial ruling in this had allowed, uh, a somewhat blanket but not total federal ruling where you could come back and get a fifth year if you were a four-year player who had left colleges.

Uh, today the NCAA got a, uh, got a stay in this case, which basically means the, the rule, the initial ruling was overruled.

So in a practical matter, Pat, what this means is

isIf you want to, uh, petition, sue for a fifth year, you're gonna now have to do it at the state level.

So it actually somehow makes all this messier because, you know, guys like Steven Daly, who went back to Indiana, for example, if Steven Daly is now going to play his fifth year, he is going to have to, you know, petition through a state court, local court.

Yeah

[laughs] Um, where do we begin?

Well, Paul, uh, we begin with, uh, moderate chaos and, you know, potentially on the precipice of, of more.

I, I think that's the, the best way to sum up this Thursday in, uh, in, in college athletics.

There was really an interesting visceral reaction, Paul, to people seeing players in NFL uniforms and then realizing a judge in Louisiana has basically created a way for them to come back and play college football if they do not make the NFL, or if they choose to just say, "Hey, it's a more stable place to play college for a year, more stable paycheck than living on the fringes of an NFL roster or practice squad," uh, e- et cetera.

So I, I feel like not much has changed.

Like, there's been these cloud bursts of state rulings that we've seen in college football and college basketball especially over the past, uh, few weeks.

Um, you know, this has all come in the wake of the NCAA passing age-based eligibility, the so-called five and five.

What did he say?

Yeah.

Uh, I think the cleanest way to explain this, and it is muddled, it is muddled, Pat, uh, is to say the class of 2022, right now, the players who have played four years and didn't take a red shirt, um, who have gone on, uh, may now be eligible.

And, and s- local state courts, like this one in Louisiana, have ruled some of them eligible.

We're waiting for the appellate court ruling on the appeal of the Colorado case, the Wisny case.

Could happen today, maybe tomorrow.

It was supposed to happen yesterday.

That could, could potentially take this very narrow field of specific state court rulings and widen it a little bit to maybe dozens more players.

Yeah

Nonetheless, Protect College Sports Act, this has to go through, like, right now? Is that what we're all kind of understanding? Is that the reality of this? And how, how much urgency does everybody kind of understand about it at this particular point, Pete?

Yeah, Pat, I think, uh, it, it's certainly in the crosshairs right now, but the overwhelming sense today is there's been, like, three straight days of, like, drop dead deadlines that have been blown through.

And, uh, the Big Ten, uh, presidents and athletic directors are actually meeting about this as we speak.

There's an overriding feeling of pessimism that's any- that anything's going to happen.

And again, if anything happened today with the Big Ten and the SEC, and the SEC presidents are meeting later today about this, uh, in, in about three hours.

Um, if, if any- You know, this is still to get it to the Senate floor, which is still, like, three steps away from being three steps away.

But right now, uh, the, the critical juncture here is if this one doesn't work at this moment and this doesn't get to the Senate floor at this time, it just remains very unlikely that Congress is going to be an option for college sports to help fix itself.

Wash money

But it's been widely interpreted, maybe misinterpreted, But in our world that we live in, Pete, when somebody interviews you as they have, hey, is the SEC breaking away? Put it in context for us.

So here's the context of the SEC breakaway.

We'll start with the root of Greg's comments, which were genuine.

There are frustrations.

There are frustrations with the NCAA.

No one is doubting that.

No one is casting skepticism on that.

It was

at least usher some decisions to get made to find some order, Pete?

Yes.

So the Protect College Sports Act, Rich, is right now potentially could reach the floor of the Senate in the upcoming weeks.

Whether that happens or not, there is still a lot of ambiguity around that.

There is no certainty to this bill.

And as I think the minutia of it is debated and language is debated and talked about and written about, it – When you pull away, it's like, okay, this thing probably still has about a 10% chance of ever becoming law, right? So every iteration is going to deal with a reaction, especially the realignment portion, right? Realignment is essentially the paradigms of a multibillion-dollar business.

And so that is obviously, you know, the amount of energy, focus, and time spent around that is really, really significant.

What does that look like, Pete? And when?

Why is this such a big sticking point? And, like, for the Big 10 and the SEC, every time we've kind of talked, whether it's been Petitti or Sankey, it doesn't seem like they're too keen on adding members anytime soon, but why is this such a big deal?

Ty, so I think any time the Protecting College Sports Act is discussed, it has to be discussed with the fact that it is still a Hail Mary to actually become law, right? There are still myriad deal points that need to be negotiated, talked about, renegotiated.

This is the, the, the focus though, 'cause realignment is the infrastructure and paradigms of a multi-billion dollar industry.

And what- Has happened in college sports as they have invited Washington, um, and courted Washington in some ways to help them with their issues because of antitrust, is you get a lot of unsophisticated opinions that, that, that come through.

So we've seen a couple iterations already of, uh, of realignment and what it could look like here.

And, uh, Maria Cantwell, who is, uh, the, the Democrat from Washington, she's obviously been a vocal proponent of Washington State, which got left out in the cold in the realignment.

So she's been particularly invested in realignment.

When do you project something happening to kinda preserve the back end of college sports that we all can kinda see is not sustainable, right? I think we all kind of understand that.

So this

would not be the result of anything new.

Now, coincidentally, there was a lawsuit that landed today from a former Michigan football assistant, Chris Partridge, who has long claimed legally that he was wrongly forced to resign amid the Connor Stallions affair.

And he alleges in this lawsuit that Ward Manuel knew what was going on, as did President Santa Ono, which is a pretty remarkable claim to see in a legal document.

The cynic in me, Cole, thinks that no university, and you've seen this for as long as you've done this, ever wants to sit down in deposition.

No university president ever wants to sit down in deposition.

So that lawsuit feels a little bit like a dare, like, hey, you want to go? You want to tango? You want to sit down in deposition? And it feels like a little bit of a potential nudge to settle.

it should work there.

How many teams do we think will be represented there? What do we think this looks like, and, uh, how did we land on July 10th as the date for this workout?

So, Pat, we'll start with the, uh, the teams.

Uh, I called a few teams today, and, uh, I'd expect all 32 to go.

And, and every NFL team, because it's a quarterback, because there's some ambiguity around him, um, and because the, the supplemental draft is like a blind pick, so I think you'd be foolish if you didn't put...

Everybody puts in a blind bid.

So even if you have a quarterback, you may put in a fourth rounder for him.

So e- everyone has skin in this, so, uh, I'd expect all 32 teams to be there.

Have you heard from any teams that are maybe, um, tough pill to swallow in what's going on with him in college, if you will? If you will, Pete Thamel.

do you know that the years in which his wagers were placed actually on indiana football was it just his freshman year i i'd find it impossible pete that he made 90 000 bets he bet on indiana the year he didn't play and then he just stopped for a while

So he met – I'm sorry.

He bet consistently throughout his time at Indiana two seasons, Cincinnati two seasons, and even it emerged that he bet while he was at Texas Tech, that he sent money to people to place bets for him when he was in Texas.

I don't believe you can legally gamble on your phone in Texas if – that memory serves me from uh from reading the uh the documents um but the the delineation is this um he bet on indiana while at indiana 40 times and those bets were before he you know dressed it was on the travel scope before he was threatening the roster of playing but he ended up playing like a couple snaps at the end of that season and he had stopped when he became a factor on the team so again not excusing anything not saying anything but that's the timeline of that but he still continued to bet in the end uh yeah on college sports on all the things you're not supposed to bet on um you know like look and then say said this pretty plainly in their filing like in in the lawyer uh Taylor asked you, I believe that the name is argued this in, uh, in, in the hearing, um, you know, when they were, when they were asking, uh, you know, after Texas Tech made their argument, they said, look, this guy should have stopped, should have been forced to stop playing.

whatever four years ago was, 2022, 2021, something like that, because the worst of what he did betting-wise, not volume-wise, but betting on your own team is sort of this cardinal sin in athletics.

And the worst of what he did happened four full seasons ago during his redshirt season.

So the NCAA's argument in court was he's already been given sort of three full seasons after he did that to play.

Like how permanent do are people viewing this?

What is the path now for the NCAA, and what's the likelihood they can do anything about this?

But the path is an appeal, Paul.

And, well, first of all, just, you know, for, again, I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on Twitter occasionally.

Just like, you know, this happened to Betty Occo.

How come the NCAA can't stop it? And if you read from the actual...

ruling today, which is kind of a legal ruling in a court in Texas.

It says the NCAA is enjoined, which basically means prohibited, from doing the following, quote, prohibiting Shoresby from practicing, playing, or otherwise participating on Texas Tech's football team for the 2026 season.

have we heard yet from the big 12 commissioner, Brett, your mark?

Can you tell us more about how we got here, and what we think this means for a precedent going forward?

Well, Pat, uh, thanks for having me.

This is, this is certainly an unprecedented day in, in the history of college sports.

And, and I don't wanna sound over-dramatic here, but, uh, gambling has always been a thick red line.

And the fact that Brendan Shoresby, who admitted to placing thousands of bets for $90,000, including 40 bets on his own team while he was at Indiana, the fact that he is going to be, or has been legally cleared to play college football this season at Texas Tech is simply something that we've never seen before.

And, uh, it's the latest manifestation of, of one of the biggest issues in college sports right now, Pat, which is local rulings overruling what the NCAA rules are supposed to be.

And this one feels the most significant, Pat, 'cause, 'cause gambling cuts different than a medical red shirt, than, uh, an age argument like the Betty Okho case for, uh, for, for example.

... that they're talking about in, in DC.

Pete, anything that I missed, and what is the new ruling and where are we at right now?

So the news from yesterday, Pat, was that Brendan Ursery's request for reinstatement from the NCAA was denied.

If you look at these NCAA cases in the past and this type of past precedent, this wasn't altogether surprising.

Now, Ursery's case is a little bit unique because of the gambling addiction piece of it, which is just sort of a new way to look, a new prism to look at these gambling cases through.

Remember, in the lawsuit that he filed, he said his team proposed to the NCAA, "Hey, how about a two-game suspension?" They denied that.

Now, there's two prongs for him to potentially play college football next year.

One, the more likely prong, will be the June 1st court date in Lubbock County, where he will go before a judge.

Uh, through your strange reality that you were situating about there earlier.

How should we expect this kind of to go? 'Cause this is a very serious, very important thing that is kind of happening right in front of our eyes for the future of sport.

Yeah.

In terms of on-field storylines, Pat, I don't think there's a bigger one than the status and eligibility of Brendan Sonsby between now and when he'd have to declare for the supplemental draft.

He's a, he was the number one player in the transfer portal.

He's a top 10 player in the sport.

He's a potential first round pick.

He could be a potential high supplemental NFL draft pick if, if he does go that way.

Of course

Never days

...

if Brendan Shoresby did indeed go to the supplemental draft, he would certainly be, um, the most prominent player since Josh Gordon, um, which was maybe a dozen or so years ago coming out of Baylor.

But I- ironically, Pat, um, the reason you do end up in the supplemental draft is you don't have eligibility.

That, that, I believe, without looking at the rules in front of me, is one of the tenets where this sort of loophole emerged.

Because you weren't gonna be able to be eligible to play at your school, you could then use this, uh, you know, use this exit ramp, um, and, and go, uh, and go there.

So I have a feeling, uh, if it goes that way, we'll all be learning a lot more about the supplemental draft because it would be a, uh...

Why, why'd you do this?

Okay

... you know, there was a, a flurry of guys, you know, good players, um, it was Jake Ferguson, a star at Eilman.

Uh, there was, you know, there were a bunch of guys who, and that's sort of the, the modern comparison when we jump ahead to potential punishments here, what, what could happen.

And, and that's why, you know, as we sit here today, um, you know, in late April, it's, it's difficult to see a path for Brendan Sorsby to get back on the field.

With the volume of bets, um, the amount, right? A lot of the NCAA punishment that got, uh, reconfigured in 2023 revolves around, I think if you bet more than $800, you're at risk for 30% of your season.

Something like, the, it's, it's some sort of calculus, calculus like that.

But, I, I mean, you said it, Reese, like while at Indiana, he bet on Indiana.

But anyway, so.

Can you kind of take us where we're at, how they found out, and what's possible with this entire thing?

Yeah, Pat, let's start with the, with the macro.

I, I think culturally you touched on it.

This is a, this is a giant story.

He will become the first face of collegiate gambling.

Um, there has obviously been other instances, even some of the college basketball gambling stuff that I came on your show about a little while ago, came out today in terms of prop bets and everything.

But he is the first major college athlete to be the centerpiece of this.

So i- it's like, uh, it's an interesting time in our, in our society, so maybe the rules do evolve a little bit, especially if they can see every bet that has been made, you know?

What is the punishment that could happen to Coach Golding, and is the punishment gonna be strong enough that it stops everybody from doing it, or how do you stop...? Like, what is the, the right answer here to stop all of it?

So it is not all going to be stopped.

I am convicted, uh, I am convicted on that.

I do think if there is a punishment to Pete Golding for these allegations, and again, they are just allegations, it could curb or maybe change behavior or, or de-incentivize that kind of behavior, or they could have third parties do it, et cetera, et cetera.

The, the rare part of this is the allegations are that the head coach was, uh, you know, this direct in the, uh, tampering allegations.

Now, look, Dabo laid out pretty clear these things.

What we don't know is, do they have copies of the text messages or were th- those just verbally articulated? Is there actual hard evidence of this? And that's ultimately what it's going to come down to from an NCAA standpoint.

like, a, a possibility, and, and how do you think this is gonna play out?

What are we hearing? What are we learning? Where do we stand with college hoops right now? Should I be watching what I'm doing on my DraftKings with college hoops at this point, Pete Thamel?

[laughs] Well, I just saw you flashed up, uh, David Purdum's story.

He's done an excellent job tracking this.

Uh, today, Pat, is sort of the culmination of what has dripped out over the last year, that there's been an unspooling, uh, federal investigation into point shaving in, uh, in Division I men's college basketball.

And what really, uh, emerged today was just sort of some of the hard realities of the depths of this scandal and how far it went.

Uh, 20 people were charged, uh, in this.

Uh, the, the ringleaders were a guy named Shane Hennon, uh, and Marvis Fairley.

But who enforces any of it? The local state laws, courts do? That's what's happening with Trinidad, right?