So let's talk about where do people get it right and where do people get it wrong concerning what data centers mean, for instance, for their taxes? Are they a net drain on taxpayers or do they provide something of benefit to the taxpayers?

Yeah, they can actually be a net contributor to taxpayers.

You know, we've discovered this in our own backyard here where National Taxpayers Union is located in the nation's capital.

There's a county called Loudoun County, which is called Loudoun.

Basically, the birthplace of data centers.

No other place in the United States has as many data centers per capita as Loudoun County.

It's barely 10 miles from where I'm speaking to you now.

Yeah.

So maybe if you could describe the importance of data centers to a local community's tax base and how communities could end up on the winning side of that equation.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because data centers tend to be sponsored by businesses, and here I'm talking about the types of data centers that a company might build to facilitate transmission and storage of data across all kinds of sectors.

Here I'm not talking about the hospital with a giant data center on one of its floors.

I'm talking about a dedicated facility.

One of those can very easily make contributions to the local property tax base, the state income tax base, the corporate profit tax base that can far exceed many of the drawbacks of locating a facility in a community.

I'll give a couple of examples.

But what is it exactly? What would actually maximize the value? And I don't want to call it a share the wealth system, but how do real people in communities actually get financial benefit from these data centers or how could they?

If we give tax breaks and tax incentives to data centers, are they in effect subsidies? Are we giving data centers a hand up?

They would be if they were being exempt from taxes in a way that other industries aren't exempt.

And see, this is the important question with sales taxes.

Now, when a manufacturer or provider of a service buys a piece of equipment, they generally don't pay sales taxes on it.

that the sales tax is charged to the end user, the consumer.

If the provider of a good or a service had to pay sales tax on everything they bought and then charge sales tax, that would be a tax on top of a tax on top of a tax.

It would go on forever.

So are they getting those exemptions for the most part, what you understand, or no? from what I understand,

Would you mind telling my audience the essence of the Jones Act? I've told them my interpretation of it plenty of times, but you tell them how you see the Jones Act.

Yeah, the Merchant Marine Act of 1920, also known as the Jones Act, named after its primary Senate sponsor, requires cargo that's traveling between U.S. ports It has to go in ships that are U.S.-owned, U.S.-crewed, U.S.-registered, and U.S.-built.

Virtually no other country on Earth has restrictions on shipping that are so strong, so punitive.

And it's a big reason why it's so expensive to ship things not only between U.S. ports but on inland waterways.

And, in fact, one of the reasons that President Trump gave a waiver for Jones Act shipments of oil and gasoline and fertilizer and extended it recently is because this act just makes things so much more expensive.

And it shows.

I mean, it is directly responsible, for example, for about $800 million in added costs to East Coast consumers alone of U.S. energy.

So if it has not kept shipbuilding here, if it has not made sure that ships calling on American ports are crewed by Union ship crew from the United States, then why isn't there a move on Capitol Hill to get rid of this thing altogether?

Let's assume that there was a good reason for it to begin with, and I don't know that there was, but how is it that it is outdated these days? What is it that needs to be done? Uh, because it seems like this waiver has been pretty successful.

Yes.

In fact, there have been, by my count, at least 20 waivers of these restrictions over the past 20 years, and the latest one being just the one that the president announced, uh, a 90-day waiver on oil, gas, gasoline, and fertilizer products.

So now, if, uh, a, an oil terminal in Louisiana needs to ship something up to Savannah, Georgia, or further up the East Coast, the Jones Act will not apply, and a foreign-flagged vessel or a US vessel with a foreign crew or whatever can do that.

Well, if so many waivers keep getting granted in the name of helping consumers afford things and helping goods get shipped quickly, why in the world do we have this law in the first place? That's the big question.

Well, the law was intended to maintain a strong merchant marine fleet that was US-based.

That hasn't worked.

Uh, that's, uh, not only an inconvenience and a problem for the transportation, but very costly to the taxpayers.

credit.

Why? Because there is no economic growth in this county in the private sector.

No investment is occurring.

Montgomery County's primary industry is pushing paper and government.

Well, contrast that with across the Potomac River in Loudoun County, which is basically the king in the United States for data centers.

They have a couple of thousand of them.

Loudoun County has been able to reduce its property tax base on residents year after year after year because the data center tax base gets bigger year after year after year.

Make that case to a skeptical listener whose electric bill just went up.

You folks did a cost-benefit analysis, and I'm interested in what you found.

Yes.

We have found that if the policy parameters are set right, the data center boom can definitely benefit rather than cost taxpayers, and there are many examples of how it is done right.

For one thing, you have to look at the upfront contribution of data centers toward a tax base.

If you have a good, welcoming climate for taxes that says to all kinds of business, "We would like to have you here," you're already ahead of the game.

That's one reason that, for example, Iowa has the second-largest number per resident of data centers in the entire country.

Virginia is at the top of the heap.

This, this helps, um, diminish the need for individuals to have to fund the government on their own backs.