When did you start to use what might be called AI and machine learning?

I think...

I mean, it's really accelerated in my life and work probably in the last year.

And I guess particularly when I was, I guess, in the back six months of boots and as I entered a period of doing consulting, it just became more and more of an aid to me and the team.

But also there was just more and more noise.

And I don't mean that in a bad way, but when you sit in a CMO's job, there's a lot of noise around you.

And particularly lots of really happy CFOs who are like, oh, I've just read the FT that everyone's piling in on AI.

would you describe yourself as more fanboy than luddites i mean i'm just interested in what your current current split is between kind of excitement and concern when it comes to using generative i am particularly

It's that if you walk into a heritage brand, you have to at once balance respect for that heritage with the truth of the matter, which is that somebody who was born today or 10 years ago has never heard of you and never will unless you tell them why it's relevant to them.

Well, this is a really good point, but this is why you've got to build from a brand truth.

You've got to build from a point of going, what's true, always been true in this brand, but still true today? And that's where we landed on the brand purpose to be with you for life.

Because going back to the history of the boot, the boot family were incredible family.

And they basically flew in the face of the establishment.

Historically, at that time, only really wealthy people could afford health care and beauty.

And the boot family went, well, stuff that.

What does a CMO do for an august, world-renowned organization like the University of Nottingham? What is it that a CMO does when he comes into that job and thinks, This is what we need to do.

Every job I've done, pretty much I didn't know the sector before I came into it.

One of the things I'm hugely passionate about is often I feel as marketers we get pigeonholed.

And you can only apply for certain jobs if you've got deep experience in that sector.

I fundamentally disagree with that.

I think if you're a good marketer and you've got the skill set, you can apply that to any sector.

And in fact, you can probably bring something different and unique to it too.

When did you start to use what might be called AI and machine learning? I think...

I mean, it's really accelerated in my life and work probably in the last year.

And I guess particularly when I was, I guess, in the back six months of boots and as I entered a period of doing consulting, it just became more and more of an aid to me and the team.

But also there was just more and more noise.

And I don't mean that in a bad way, but when you sit in a CMO's job, there's a lot of noise around you.

And particularly lots of really happy CFOs who are like, oh, I've just read the FT that everyone's piling in on AI.

What are you doing? And it got to the point where I actually wrote a paper with the team that we kept updating every month on what are we doing about AI.

can i say all three

... right and wrong.

Yeah, it's interesting.

I think we're still finding our way in that, Ben.

But I think in terms of right usage, for me, I find AI incredibly helpful at, at research.

You know, when, when I'm meeting new clients or trying to understand a business or market or sector, it's a great shortcut into tell me about this industry, or tell me about this brand, tell me about who the key people are.

So as a research tool it's brilliant.

And if you apply that into, um, core research into your market dynamics, I think it's incredibly helpful.

So while, while you're here, is there anything that you would like to bring back to the marketing world before you go?

How do you balance... that and of course all particularly retailers pete you'd know this would have had maybe the big kind of the more the brand ad but then kind of the tactical execution so is that where that sits in you have to make sure that you're you're showing the value

or maybe it's in store so boots what we did is we had a core 30 second master film actually it often was a 60 and then cut to a 30 then we have a series of 20 second value ads so probably about half a dozen of which one or two were about black friday and they did exactly that connor which is They would feature the same sort of style and music, but they would be just a pack shop and it'd be things like three for two or Black Friday deals.

And we didn't disperse those through the campaign.

Those were very, very effective.

They were the equivalent of the old DRTV ads, but because we're in a brand wrapper, they had a real sort of quality feel for them.

And often we do those through some form of a virtual production.

But on your point, actually, we had this a few, and this was the second Christmas ad I did with Lydia West, which featured some magical glasses, the second ad of Boots, sorry.

I mean, that's a really interesting