If

anybody walked that way, they'd almost like, why are you going to HR? Oh, well, this is wrong, or I've got this.

And they'd fill the grievance out for them.

Just take that in, and they had an in-tray for grievances.

and of course they were a big part of them being on strike every so often so my experience of unions I was really fortunate because as I say I trained 30 years ago as a mediator and I was in British Steel at the time very heavily unionized and making a lot of redundancies and it totally changed how I dealt with the trade unions And so I actually see trade unions as a really positive thing, but a really challenging aspect as well.

It comes back to what I said about getting to know people, building relationships.

You'll get some real table-thumping union reps, but in my experience that's usually the less confident ones.

Yeah, no, you do.

Yeah.

And I'm like, "Don't worry.

Don't worry if you don't know your way around it," or, "Don't worry if we get lost." And, and it was interesting, 'cause the car park and his office had the factory in between.

To kinda get the reply.

And, and it's amazing when you do that.

I mean, I had a conversation, uh, probably about two or three months now, and it involved menopause and things, but, you know, it goes from being an awkward conversation to then people's personalities-

Mm-hmm.

So mainly in the steel industry, then the food industry, and then the aerospace industry.

Um, and, and in, in the food industry, I spent about four or five years as a, as a line manager.

Yeah.

So if I ...

W- when I was a factory manager in, in the, uh, food industry, I started as a HR manager and then moved into being a factory manager, and that, the reason I moved to that business-