for context, are these the good guys that you consider trying to do the right work or what?

They were definitely people who were different, who were trying to uncover some of these problems at the FDA.

I mean, you can argue, you know, about how good they were or not.

I mean, I've had some serious concerns about, you know, some of the ways they've things they've done in public.

But I think overall, they were trying to, you know, fix some problems at the FDA.

And I interviewed Tracy Beth Hogue for my podcast.

And during that hour long conversation, we went over what had happened to her inside the FDA.

This is indicative of a problem when something like that surfaces.

What do you make of the president's case and how do you think it will fare on the court?

Well, the one thing that's 100% true that no one can debate me on is I said this was going to end up in the Supreme Court, and it is.

That's the one thing I was indisputably right on.

You can declare victory and go home like Trump in Iran.

That's it, guys.

This is all it.

I said I was going to the Supreme Court, and here we are.

And the guy completely shuts up and realizes the presence of a certain person can be intimidating.

Give us your sense of the import and, uh, the import of the Morens indictment and, and where, if anywhere, you think this leads.

Well, I'll just sort of even go further back.

In 2021, I wrote an article for the British Medical Journal, the BMJ, about evidence coming out that this was all a cover up.

Um, and actually what we use is there was a, there was a conspiracy by, by virologists to cover up the possibility that this thing could have come from a lab in Wuhan.

I mean, that's the thing that I think we know for-- without a fact, is they, they conspired to try and cover up.

Now, what we don't know is did they cover up the fact that they knew that this thing came from a lab in Wuhan, or were they covering it up because they didn't want, like, people to know about the money that was going there and how this made the whole field look bad? And after that, you know, I wrote that piece just two months ago, a bunch of emails came out showing that David Morens and Peter Daszak and another guy named Gerald Keusch, who's now an emeritus professor of virology at Boston University, began plotting against me shortly after that piece came out.

I can see from the emails back in 2021 about contacting my editor at the BMJ.

Hmm.

It's actually come at their political disinterest when you look at the trend lines of donating from the industry, right?

I mean, so I was a Senate investigator back in 2010 when NIH got one of its biggest bumps in funding, 36% increase from Senator Specter, right, of Pennsylvania.

And Senator Specter, again, the biggest supporters of the NIH have traditionally been Republicans.

Senator Specter gave him a 36% bump.

When that happened, I was investigating corruption at the NIH.

I met with Senator Specter's staffer, the woman who was working on this and tried to talk her down out of this or to say like, okay, we can give them more money, but we need answers on certain things we're trying to get answers to.

Didn't work.

Tell us what you found and your reaction to the fact that Marco Rubio has now sanctioned him.