No one can see this,

though.

It's just a tiny screen.

So we'll have to take screenshots of it.

We'll take a video.

We'll post a video.

But you can see it.

They're able to organize for them.

And what are some of the things that are going to be different about eCash than Bitcoin? I know it's a lot of drive chain related stuff, right?

That's right.

So we have one that is called Thunder, which is kind of a joke at Lightning's expense.

But Thunder is a large block L2, and it's actually a set of large block L2s.

So the idea, you can look at not only what I've written about this, I've written some human readable stuff, but there's also tests on GitHub where you can test and you can see that it would work for like 4 billion people using it at the same time or onboarding 4 billion people at the same time.

Now, this is something the Lightning Network couldn't even dream.

No one would even think to try to make a test like that because it couldn't possibly work because you can't onboard people to the Lightning Network without block space on L1 and blah, blah, blah.

Uh, how do you predict it's going to go? Are you getting, um, pretty excited now that you're getting close to it getting launched? Are you starting to see some activity out there, people getting excited about it? And then also, where can people p- possibly, uh, get access to it and maybe even buy more of it once it does a fork?

what's going to take for that wall to, you know, disappear and that like the miners club to collaborate with them? How's that all going to work so that Bitcoin ecosystem is healthy going forward?

Well, I think they're all related.

You know what I mean? Like if you go to a company, let's say you, you know, let's imagine you're hypothetically like a young student and you get the internship at GE or something, or you get the internship at, I don't know, SpaceX or Tesla or some big company of today.

you go and then when you get there, you really don't want to see that all they do is talk about the stock price all day.

You know what I mean? Like every time, oh, you're going to go to the factory floor.

You're going to go to the marketing department.

All they do is talk about the stock price.

And you, the layer two explicitly presents minor fee generation as part of the drive chain proposition, right? Right.

You're better off using an iPhone with Electrum or whatever.

Yeah, that's true.

If you, really, if you can put, well, we don't want to like, but it's hard to, it takes a lot of time to describe what to recommend people do.

We should probably put out like a guide.

I could put out like a guide for like what I do.

um but um but yeah i think it's it's still very important and if you are you have the private key you're the real owner of the coins and if you're not then someone else's so um so you don't do that i do think it's fascinating the 110 people Almost everything is different.

Where I was kind of like, we don't have 50% hash rate support right now because really no soft fork does and none have activated.

without kyc without limits hopefully they will support e-cash and you can even use leverage if you want orange rock.com i don't recommend leverage don't gamble your money be smart but if you think you're smarter than me do whatever okay paul let's talk about the 12 beautiful drive chains that we have so far

Do you think that there's any legitimacy to the MEV concerns around Layer 2s? You do not, you're

not.

Certainly not for DriveChain because with 301, blind merge mining, all of the value added to the block is paid on L1, including the intangible MEV value.

This is the key feature.

So it's all DMEVed anyway.

But I never thought it made any sense.

And if you talk to the people who are banging the drum about this, they end up telling you the most ridiculous nonsense possible.

Do they really actually believe

And some were kind of like

half-baked.

They were like, this is just going to end up being Banks 2.0.

Which that ended up happening.

But I think at the time, that was kind of clear that that wasn't totally fleshed out.

That was like a kid comes up to you with a fair coin and they say, this coin is going to land heads.

I'm certain of it.

So you have to be pragmatic.

so they're

very illegal.

Different countries pass completely different laws, like at different times, different activities are decriminalized.

You know, first with something, you know, 20 years ago would have been a felony or a hundred years ago, punishable by death is considered a human right in a short time.

So it's kind of like, listen, you know, like law or whatever.

And then Bitcoin can be used for all these things.

It doesn't matter if you or your trading partner wanted to do something that is a gray market or black market.

as

thing that would like send this into

like millions of commentary.

So – It's true that we're not actually taking any Satoshi's coins.

And I suppose it's theoretically true that I could probably sue people for slander because it's like they're accusing me of a criminal actor.

So not that I would care enough to do that.

But there's a sense in which they are right because in Bitcoin...

We don't people in Bitcoin.

Is that winning or is that an attempted coup? I think that that's an open