How critical is that, this ability to learn on the job and to adapt?

Look, I think it's critical and it's part of, I think, the story also of how it got to the prime ministership.

one of my concluding judgments is that many of those who make the job and are successful in the job, one of the characteristics is they've often had a long, arduous journey to the top.

And over time, this has instilled them with a wisdom, balanced judgment, And they're survivors, which itself tells you much about their temperament.

And I've often said, you know, Howard, yes, he's a learner.

And Laurie Oakes said, had John Howard only ever made a mistake once, maybe you'd learn from that.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration but nonetheless there's a fundamental truth there.

Just thought, well, whatever else you say about her, she's, you know, she's as tough as nails.

Is this contest a, as much a leadership contest as much about time as it is about who's got the numbers?

Uh, look, I, I think clearly the caucus is now looking at the polling, which is dire, and it goes back to a broader issue, I think, Sally, is that ever since Jacinta Allan inherited the premiership in September 2023, um, and she'd been previously anointed by Daniel Andrews, she's battled to create her own distinctive leadership identity.

She's been unable to untangle herself from her inheritance, and nor has she been able to establish a rapport with the public.

I was looking at the published opinion polls, um, yesterday again, and at no stage has he, has she obtained a positive leadership rating.

So it's been an enormous struggle for her, um, and her ratings have been dire since pretty much since 2025.

So I think a, a crunch moment was always going to come, and with the published p- polls now starting to point to the real possibility of a Coalition government emerging, maybe in alliance with One Nation, that's difficult to predict.

Uh, but as I said, I think, you know, it's concentrated the attention of MPs now just of how troubling the position is for State Labor.

If this goes to a vote of members of the ALP, how long does that process take? Uh, and what are the arrangements for Premier of the State in that time?

Yeah.

Up to a degree.

And yet it was repudiated, and it was repudiated soundly by younger Australians, by women, by migrant Australians in the outer suburbs.

And yet here we are, not long later, where it's, it's almost as this hydro beast has redeveloped.

Um, so that's a shock at one level.

I would suggest that even Pauline Hanson and, you know, Ashby and others around her are shocked by what's going on, um, that is so unpredictable.

Two, to go to Trump, remember the last election, one of the turning points was there, was clearly the Trump influence, where Australians took stock of what was going overseas, um, with the grotesqueries of Trump's, um, governance, with his destabilizing ef- effects, and took a step back.

Yeah.

Uh, but also then thinking as a contrast perhaps to the way our Prime Minister, Albanese, has navigated this time and the alliance with the USA in a sort of say less mode.

Yeah, I was, I was really puzzled actually to some degree with the infatuation with Mark Carney from that moment because I think Jennifer's just noted, in essence, he's a technocrat.

I don't think he's a- an especially inspirational leader.

So yes, he captured a moment, and that's part of what leadership is about.

It's about that op- the str- the opportunities there.

He grasped, he articulated something.

He articulated it very well.

Briefly