So do you remember like your most challenging day in the field or a challenging day? Yeah.

Another series of workshops I did, I call them post-mortem workshops.

Wanted to go back out to agencies who had trouble hitting target on homes.

Our average pre-weatherization home is like 3,600.

I didn't want to go in the homes that were very leaky or very tight.

I wanted a home where it was about 3,600.

They couldn't hit target.

Is there anything that we didn't get to talk about that you were hoping to talk about?

Paul, what prompted RPNA to develop the What Must Be True framework? And why do you believe these six conditions matter more now than ever before for local government leaders?

Sure, I think I guess the short answer to that is we believe they are the defining factor.

for successful change.

And when we talk about successful change, we mean change that is not only delivered, but it is done in a manner that the organization can sustain and build upon.

It becomes a platform for the next evolution of the change need to undertake.

And we've been working with organizations in the space of organizational change and transformation for the best part of 15 years or so now.

And a lot of that time was focused on the things that we would all recognise and understand.

If there was one question that our listeners who work in local government should be asking themselves, and potentially their leadership team, after hearing the conversation with yourself and Adam, what would you want that one question to be?

Mm-hmm.

Well, I used to have- Everybody had one of them.

There weren't no, none of these kettles in your cell, and there weren't no electricity plugs in your cell, and phones, nothing like that.

No PlayStations.

They were single cells, a little tr- transistor radio, and the batteries were so expensive.

You'd buy a PP9 and wire it up.

Well, matey thought it was a good idea to try and take me out with his PP9 battery.

Right.

10 of?

10.

Three of them, like, and I think it's usually only one.

Why they give me three for? So I went, "I'm gonna pass on that one today." And they went, "What?" [laughs] I thought they're up to something here.

So I don't know why, I just thought in my head they're up to something, and they were.

They wanted to take me to HMP Axhea Prison.

Not the court, or, or, or, well, I can't remember exactly whether I went to court or whether I didn't, but not with Securicor or normal sweatbox they refused to take me.

Yeah, who is that?