And whilst those cyber attacks were terrible for the people who worked in those companies, who had invested in those companies and were customers of those companies, the wider impact on industry and of course on regulation and lawmaking has probably been a net positive because we're now in a much better place to at least understand the risks that we face has that filtered through as yet to the customer bases that you're both talking to so

it's actually quite interesting point steve so you know richard touched upon um the media we We as an MSSP have kind of seen a degree of the ostrich with its head in the sand kind of analogy on cyber recently.

And in fact, those large scale incidents at the back end of last year drove a lot of smaller scale organisations to push their heads in further because they were kind of sat there feeling well, if these big brands can suffer an incident of this scale, and therefore, there's the hypothetical, they must be spending X amount of money on cyber and on IT and on security, then what hope do we have? So it actually drove the complete opposite behavior from an end user perspective.

What we are seeing, however, is the regulation having the right behaviour or starting to embed the right behavioural patterns.

And I think we as a nation are being slightly behind the times on getting regulation to drive people's behaviour.

And it is overdue and it is very much needed.

And the only reason why you put regulation in place is because something isn't working at the end of the day.

So what then do we need to change? Because if we've got this discrepancy, we've got this shortfall where perhaps the CISO or the CIO's department thinks they're better than they are and the board is not taking it as seriously as they should, what needs to give? I