It would be a huge difference, though, too, the way some of his predecessors presented themselves.

Absolutely.

Not so much his immediate predecessor.

Francis went for simplicity when it came to papal dress.

I mean, when he was elected in March 2013, he came out on the balcony of St. Peter's all in white.

And normally a pope comes out much more traditionally, much more elaborately dressed, as indeed Leo did himself last May, 12 months.

which made people think he was reverting back to a more traditional style of papacy, but that just not turned out to be the case.

Might that have any traction with younger people who might have drifted away from the church? Might it generate a bit of interest then?

It would be a huge difference, though, too, the way some of his predecessors presented themselves.

Absolutely.

Not so much his immediate predecessor.

Francis went for simplicity when it came to papal dress.

I mean, when he was elected in March 2013, he came out on the balcony of St. Peter's all in white.

And normally a pope comes out much more traditionally and much more elaborately dressed, as indeed Leo did himself last May, 12 months.

which made people think he was reverting back to a more traditional style of papacy, but that just not turned out to be the case.

Might that have any traction with younger people who might have drifted away from the church? Might it generate a bit of interest then?

It began with a train robbery.

It began with a train, train robbery 50 years ago, on the 31st of March, 1976, when about a, a quarter of a million pounds, which was a lot of money in those times, was taken off a train.

Uh, the driver was slightly injured, and the gang got away.

And the Gardai, uh, rounded up, to use the phrase of the title of the book, the usual suspects.

Uh, protesters basically who are fairly hard Republicans, including, uh, Oscar Brannock, Nicky Kelly, Brian McNally in particular.

And, uh, they were, um, badly bruised or emerged badly bruised after encounters, encounters with Gardai over the following approximately 48-hour period, brought before the district court, and were charged in connection with the robbery, all three of them.

And it went to trial in 1978, and the first trial, uh, was a phenomenon in its own right.

So, uh, has there ever been kind of an apology from the judiciary about getting it so wrong?

Who set it up and why? Well,

Sean, it goes back to Vatican II.

Vatican II was a reform movement, if you like, within the Catholic Church that took place in the early 1960s, set up by Pope John XXIII.

And it basically opened the Catholic Church up to the modern world.

And there were a small number of people who deeply resisted and resented this move.

They wanted to stay with the old Tridentine tradition, the church that was founded by the Council of Trent after the Reformation and indeed as part of the Counter-Reformation back in the 16th, 17th century.

And in other words, the Latin Mass as it was, Latin vernacular in church activities, the Mass being said with the priest facing the altar rather than the congregation, no use of English in our own case or Irish in some cases.

Are they distributed around the world, even though they're relatively small in numbers?

Who set it up and why? Well,

Sean, it goes back to Vatican II.

Vatican II was a reform movement, if you like, within the Catholic Church that took place in the early 1960s, set up by Pope John XXIII.

And it basically opened the Catholic Church up to the modern world.

And there were a small number of people who deeply resisted and resented this move.

They wanted to stay with the old Tridentine tradition, the church that was founded by the Council of Trent after the Reformation and indeed as part of the Counter-Reformation back in the 16th, 17th century.

And in other words, the Latin Mass as it was, Latin vernacular in church activities, the Mass being said with the priest facing the altar rather than the congregation, no use of English in our own case or Irish in some cases.

Are they distributed around the world, even though they're relatively small in numbers?

But for those of us who weren't there, who didn't live through it, can you remind people of the details?

Well, the 1970s was a particularly fraught decade in Ireland, mainly because of the eruption of violence in Northern Ireland.

in the later 1960s and particularly the early 1970s.

And there was a strong fear on the part of the government of the day down here that the IRA, who had become very active in Northern Ireland, might begin to undermine the rule of law and indeed the government itself in the South.

And as part of their fight back against the IRA, who were conducting robberies all over the country, basically to subsidise their campaign in Northern Ireland and pay for it, there led to the evolution from the murder squad of what became known as the heavy gang.

And this is a group of hard-nosed Gardaí who were basically licensed to use whatever methods they believed necessary to get confessions out of people believed to be suspected of involvement in crime.

And that's where the Salons case basically becomes a real focal point for the activities of that gang.

But why was there no further acknowledgement of wrongdoing, no apology at the time, do you think?