I think you had the statistics of only 5% of small businesses actually take a loan through digital channels versus, for example, 60% in the UK, right? So is this like a little bit of a chicken and egg because you have the technology, but you can't really invest or build the technology before you have the customer demand? So how did you navigate that in the beginning to then build that demand?

I mean, honestly, I think the thing is what we did is we kind of bet on a trend, right? That we bet on the fact that, you know, if you are a retail consumer today, you're going to be using Revolut, N26, Stripe, Klarna, all of these things.

And that in the long term, there's no logical reason why you should do it as a retail person, but not as a business owner for your business.

Yeah.

And at the same time, there's no logical reason why this should work in the UK, which, as you said, has 60% market penetration of digital lenders or the US or Asia or other markets.

And it shouldn't eventually come to Europe.

So that's kind of the core bet.

I

Um, I was wondering because a lot of questions we get as StartupRadio.io, as an international lens into the German-speaking DACH market, is how do you win a German Mittelstand customer that may have had the same, as we call it in German, Hausbank, meaning home bank, primary, uh, bank connection, this relationship for 20 years?

Yeah.

So, so I think there's kind of always...

I, I obviously get this question a lot, and I think it's, it's one of the key things that we work on.

I would say there's three kind of relevant components to this discussion of how do you win these customers.

The first is you've got a big batch of customers that are anyway moving away from their kind of traditional dusty old bank, um, in the sense that, you know, maybe in their private life they've already used N26 or Revolut and then they don't understand why that doesn't work for their business life as well.

[lips smack] Or you've got the thing, you know, in that same category you've got the, the, um, the change, the shift happening from the old generation, the boomer generation was a business owner and then the young, you know, the kids are taking over the businesses and they just, you know, want to have a modern up-to-date provider.

And secondly, does it scare you in terms of product quality?