How much of that was a factor in your approach to just having a family?

I think in our household, we always have had progressive politics and discussions about politics are a big feature of our household.

But honestly, Gemma as a teenager was very interested in and passionate about the gay marriage debate because she was a gay girl at that stage and she wrote a great song about it and it blew up a little bit on Bandcamp and so we were impressed by that conversation degree of commitment to that cause.

And when she was studying at the University of Melbourne and was participating in the pro-Palestine movement and the encampment happened, and then she took the University of Melbourne off to the privacy commissioner because they were using their Wi-Fi to track the students and she won that case.

She was, I think, starting to sense her power.

Gemma's activism and power is something that really is next level.

I have to admit, I really didn't want her to go.

And I think that's really sad and I think that's part of the reason why I decided to stand up in that.